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Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-10, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by browning l View Post
Dear Disgustedly,

Your post - "to scorn Lansdownplace with such a quaint facile device as 'ad hominem' " reveals your ability to comprehend; my ad hominem remark was directed, not at Lansdownplace, but at Lukehansen, who challenged my credentials based on questioning whether I had done any comparable work.

I do admire your efforts to be crude; so few are willing to attempt it, and fewer still succeed. Congratulations.
Oh, I see,

Have you done comparable work? Are you capable of doing comparable work - I seem to remember that there was talk of writing a Bristol e-book on this forum - perhaps you could take this on?

Did I succeed in being crude enough or do I need to redouble my efforts.

Pip - pip,

Ozy NOT Disgustedly
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-10, 08:20 PM
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Default Has The Kentuckian Gone Chicken.....?

Come on and be a friendly old boy and send me a post, the suspense is killing me. To while away the hours here are a couple of my favourite Kentucky jokes that I am sure you will be able to identify with................



Two Kentuckians came over to Indiana to buy a Bristol 603, but they only had a limited budget. They looked all over, and finally came upon a car lot with a Bristol 404 and a broken down old camel for sale. They asked the salesman if they could take the camel on a test drive, and he said “Sure.”
After being gone for a very long period of time, the salesman got worried that they were not coming back, so he called the police. Just as soon as he hung up the phone, the two Kentuckians showed up, but without the camel. He asked what happened to the camel, and said the story better be good. The two Kentuckians replied, "We were going along down the street just fine, and came upon a stop light, so we did. Then a carload of Hoosiers pulled up beside us and one said, "Look at those 2 butt holes on that camel". So when we got off the camel to take a look, the camel ran away"


A Kentuckian goes to his neighbor's shack and finds him printing counterfeit money in the basement.
“Whatchya doin'?”
“Printin' funny money.”
“But look here, you idjit, these is $19 bills!”
“Yeah, so I was fixin' to go spend 'em up in Indiana. I figger they won't know the difference.”
So the two go across the border in a Bristol 603 and they decide to go to a filling station and buy $5 worth of gas, to see if they can use their $19 bills.
They get their gas, the counterfeiter goes inside to pay and comes back to the car.
His buddy the 603 owner sez: “Did it work? Did they take the bill?”
“They sure did! They even gave me the right change--an eight and two threes!”
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-10, 08:36 PM
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Default My tuppence

Good ones Ozy...been enjoying the back and forth between you and Mr. Sanctimonious....

I once met a Kentuckian wearing one shoe so I asked if he had lost a shoe....he said "no, I found one"...
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-10, 08:42 PM
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Good ones Ozy...been enjoying the back and forth between you and Mr. Sanctimonious....

I once met a Kentuckian wearing one shoe so I asked if he had lost a shoe....he said "no, I found one"...
Hey Paul,

Good one, but in the words of Frank Carson, there's more, I hope yopu like this one as much as Mr Sanctimonious will............................................

Two Kentuckians are driving along a highway in a red Bristol 603 when they see a sheep with its head stuck in a fence. The first one says, “Heyyy, here’s our chance to have some fun!” The driver says what, are we going to have an ‘ad hominem’ then pulls over and they get out of the Bristol 603 and go over to the sheep. Sure enough it’s head is stuck firmly in place and there is no escape.


The driver says, “Now I see….. I’m gonna have me a little piece of that…” he then dropped his pants, removed his flat cap and began “servicing” the sheep from behind. When he was done, he looked at the second one and said, “Okay, I’ve had my fun ‘ad nauseum’ it’s your turn now.” The second one gave the driver a smile and said,, “Whoooohoo, I’ve always dreamed of this!” He then dropped his pants and stuck his head in the fence next to the sheep and said, “Go ahead, and take your time!”


Ha ha ha - its a cracker,

Chucklefully yours and hoping my good friend Lukehansen's giggle button is also piqued,

Ozy
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-10, 08:55 PM
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that is a cracker...i've heard similar but involved three guys at a bar and an alligator, but the joke is probably tailored based on region ad nauseum...

I did know this chap from Kentucky who wanted to marry a girl from the next town. The chap's father, knowing the family of the girl in question well, said "if she ain't good enough for her own family, she ain't good enough for ours".
  #46 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-10, 09:02 PM
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I did know this chap from Kentucky who wanted to marry a girl from the next town. The chap's father, knowing the family of the girl in question well, said "if she ain't good enough for her own family, she ain't good enough for ours".
Giggle,

That one is priceless Paul, how about.................

What do you get when you have 32 Kentuckians in the same room?

A full set of teeth!!!!!!


Or what about....................

What does a porcupine and the University of Kentucky’s Rupp Arena have in common?
A porcupine has 18,000 pricks on the outside and is also incapable of writing a treatise titled Bristol - Critical Justification & Appraisal.

Ho,ho, ho, gurgle, fnarrr!
  #47 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-10, 09:05 PM
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Default Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project

I think we will have to agree to differ on the merits of feedback
style. It would be a shame to discourage enthusiasm at the gestation
stage of a project. I haven't had an opportunity to read the report
myself as I am travelling, but I am looking forward to doing so

Paul
  #48 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-10, 09:05 PM
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Ah, for once a spat that I'm not involved in!

Gordon, you have probably already worked out that you need to be thick skinned to offer up anything on this site for critical analysis but I hope that doesn't put you off.

You have been quite critical about Bristol Cars so you can expect quite a bit of flack from those who believe they can do no wrong.

Personally I don't think you should have removed the link, but I did feel you should have let people know it was a 50Mb file and that it may take a while to download. The acrobat.com interface could be more informative.

While your document may contain some inaccuracies and subjective opinion in, as an overall package I thought it was pretty good, which of course means nothing, (thought I may as well say that before someone else does). Clearly you have put a lot of time and effort into it.

Should you be listing your sources for factual information?

You certainly provided considerable food for thought and debate and I for one don't have time to get into that right now.

I really liked the document layout and style - what application did you use to produce it?

Kevin
  #49 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-10, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by lansdownplace View Post
. I haven't had an opportunity to read the report , but I am looking forward to doing so

Paul
!

Wuv you................

Ozy

Last edited by ozy; 25-02-10 at 09:15 PM.
  #50 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-10, 09:28 PM
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...for the record I did read the paper and also think that it's a pretty decent first run at an overview of Bristol and possible ways forward...

...now back to my ad hominem and grits...

PaulS
411 s2 (under reconstruction)
  #51 (permalink)  
Old 25-02-10, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by PaulS View Post
...
...now back to my ad hominem and grits...

PaulS
411 s2 (under reconstruction)
I agree with you, Gordon will be unpopular with those that believe that Bristol is without fault but it's a good attempt and very well presented. Well, I'm off now to have possum & grits with non sequitor on the side cooked by my Uncle Cletus - yee-haw y'all.

Ozy
  #52 (permalink)  
Old 26-02-10, 06:43 AM
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Default Critique of the critique

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjaf View Post
post removed
I did read the whole document, although I did not study some of the drawings to the point of total comprehension.

In science, there is a problem when the objective observer brings his own mask of what passes for reality and therefore produces his evaluation and interpretations based on that mask.

In philosophy I have always been fascinated how Plato understood this problem, and therefore wrote his dialogues as a mirror so that the academic who would interpret them would write about their own view of reality rather than that of Socrates. I tend to think this is why his works have survived.

In this same vein, I must commend Mr. Farquar for his hard work, but at the same time suggest that it fails to accomplish what it represents to achieve.

We have come to define reality in a particular way, which among other things, sets a particular standard for what constitutes a good web site, a subject that Mr. Farquar critiques with a scathing review. He presents as the model of excellence the work product of top photographers, graphic designers and advertising agencies. The reality of course is different. Most land rovers, for example will not be found on a low tide beach, breathing the brisk fresh air of the seaside, but in an upscale carpark or picking the kiddies up from school. Most upscale 4 wheel drives are never put through their paces; it's all about image. Especially among the young, the blurring of reality with image is such that the derivative reality is becoming more real for them than the physical. To put it bluntly, the web site is irrelevant to Bristol or Bristol reality. It is important to Mr. Farquar because he believes it is important. He is of the derivative reality generation.

I found the reference to Robert Farago's on-line review of Bristols to be inappropriate. Mr. Farago was unable to get any interest from Bristol Cars or any owner of a reasonable condition late model car. So instead he borrowed a junker. The balance of the quote would have revealed:

"What are the two things that can be seen from outer space?" the owner asked rhetorically. "The Great Wall of China and the panel gaps of a Bristol." True enough, despite the fact that this particular Blenheim had recently enjoyed a body-off restoration– to eliminate rot. Which was discovered after the car's paint had cracked (necessitating a total re-spray). Whereupon the owner's mechanics addressed a veritable laundry list of mechanical ailments: inoperative air conditioning, "inappropriate" shock absorbers, a failed exhaust system, two blown window motors, axle whine, insufficient engine cooling and more."

Inappropriate shock absorbers, a failed body off restoration... the reviewed car was a scam, and the owner a hapless victim. From the description, it sounds as if the car would have been in a scrap heap had it had an ordinary badge on it. Instead it is a bodge, a tarted up old car bought by an unsuspecting fool.

Quoting Robert Farago's review is at the same level as quoting the Sun. Gossip not news.

I would rather have facts. Please measure the gaps of a new Bristol in the showroom. Are they consistent? How do they compare to other cars... and is there some standard about how wide or narrow the gap should be? Is it evidence of bad manufacture? Proof please, not gossip about a worn out heap.

The death trap page again shows the mask through which the author writes. He believes in computers. He believes in anti-lock brakes, traction control and air bags. I do not know if the statistics have changed, but Tony Crook used to claim that only three people have died in Bristols... one pulverized by a lorry, another drove off a cliff. In fact, I inspected and photographed a 410 that fell off a mountain in New York state and went through the roof of a barn. Not only did the occupants survive, the car did. Bristols are extremely strong cars that use a separate chassis and an energy absorbing aluminium body to protect the occupants.

"...completely irresponsible" is a nanny-state view of life. It is a belief that we must rely on engineering rather than skill, that we do not need to learn to drive, but only to operate the joystick; that the software will keep us out of trouble. This is a view of reality, indeed one very strong both in England, and in my country of New Zealand. However, it is not the reality of Bristol Cars or its customers.

Bristol sells cars in which the software is wired into the DNA. The driver learns how to brake in ice, snow or gravel so the wheels do not lock. The driver learns how much gas to give so the tyres do not lose traction. The driver learns how to avoid crashes, and for safety buckles up. In short, the buyer of a Bristol is mature, has learned to drive the car, and selects it for these very virtues. Again, we have a clash of realities

Question Mr. Farquar. Have you ever been in a car crash and been hit by the airbag? If not, try it. It may cause you to re-evaluate page 50.

Finally, I note the owner's survey has a fundamental flaw in it. I may have missed it, but it is important to state the average age of the cars covered in the survey. The 412 came out thirty-five years ago. The Brigand shortly thereafter. These are not "cars" in the sense of the review. These are antiques. Their owners are not car buyers, they are collectors. There is a world of difference between a buyer of a new or late model Bristol and the gentlemen (and occasional lady) of our various clubs. While it is more fruitful to send a questionnaire to the collectors, it is worthless in a document focused on the future.

Overall, Mr. Farquar, it was well assembled document, looks like you have mastered InDesign and Photoshop, and you have a good career ahead of you in the world of virtual reality.

But next time, if I may suggest it, do the story on BMW, Ford or another manufacturer who shares your reality mask.

Claude
  #53 (permalink)  
Old 26-02-10, 11:48 AM
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Default Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project

Well said Ozy,

Nick
  #54 (permalink)  
Old 26-02-10, 12:00 PM
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Default Critique of the critique

Whilst people have different opinions, I am shocked at how rude and
aggressive a number of individuals are on this forum and this is a regular
occurrence. It doesn't matter whether an individual either just happens to
have a different opinion or whether they are talking rubbish, they are
entitled to be spoken to politely and with respect. I take it too many
members of this forum have forgotten what good manners and respect for a
different opinion means and frankly I am getting a bit sick and tired of
reading tirades against individuals. If people weren't so rude, there would
be many more individuals ready to contribute to this forum.

Andrew
  #55 (permalink)  
Old 26-02-10, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Jervaulx View Post
I am shocked at how rude and
aggressive a number of individuals are on this forum and this is a regular
occurrence. If people weren't so rude, there would
be many more individuals ready to contribute to this forum.

Andrew
Andrew - I am not sure whether or not your commentry may be directed at me amongst others but I should like to add my response to it. You need to live in the real world and grow up a bit. I am sure we would all look forward to your contributions. I would love to see more technical discussions and resources on this forum. What I don't like to see are empty vessels making the most noise about nothing or spouting effete, politically correct, lefty/metrosexual rubbish.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jervaulx View Post
It doesn't matter whether an individual either just happens to have a different opinion or whether they are talking rubbish, they are entitled to be spoken to politely and with respect.

Andrew
Really, I'm of the 'sow the wind reap the whirlwind school of thought' I didn't think the design student was treated with respect and so I spoke out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jervaulx View Post
. I take it too many members of this forum have forgotten what good manners and respect for a different opinion means and frankly I am getting a bit sick and tired of reading tirades against individuals.

Andrew

I am sure you are right - perhaps a person of your delicate disposition should refrain from reading such upsetting tirades as they might give you nightmares! I would also advise not watching Dr Who but wonder whether or not you may prefer Torchwood?

Solicitously yours and hoping to balm your fevered brow with a soothing unction,

Ozy,
  #56 (permalink)  
Old 26-02-10, 12:45 PM
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Default Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project

Can we be clear here, there are TWO Pauls on this thread, Paul/Lansdown Place which is me and another Paul. I haven't read the report and only commented on the inaccuracy of a posting, which doesn't qualify me as a 'numpty'.

There are posts of the Farago report, this was based on a 10/12 year old car which had been 'custom' rebuilt by some backstreet garage and then left to rot in the rain. I can't imagine many manufacturers coming out well based on a review of an abused car which had been restored under the arches somewhere. A subsequent owner of the car had BCL sort it out and was delighted with it. I suspect that Mr Crook got up his nose a bit as well.

On panel gaps etc, the current assembly/design techniques for cars allow for a level of product precision that exceeds aircraft standards. Of course the develpment costs mean you have to produce tens of thousands of cars to break even, unless you Bugatti in which case you can absorb a four million pound loss on each car. The panel gaps on the Blenheim 4 are the equal of any production car, all done on an english wheel.

Paul (nothing to do with a 411!)
  #57 (permalink)  
Old 26-02-10, 12:45 PM
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Default Critique of the critique

I quite agree Andrew
  #58 (permalink)  
Old 26-02-10, 12:45 PM
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Default Critique of the critique

Well said Andrew!

Nick
  #59 (permalink)  
Old 26-02-10, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick Challacombe View Post
Well said Ozy,

Nick
Thanks Nick, with the departure of Pippa someone has to take up the baton in being forthright & controversial and it might as well be me. Whereas I cannot contribute the female standpoint, I believe that my humble solid waste management operative's opining may be of interest to some.,

In friendship,

Ozy
  #60 (permalink)  
Old 26-02-10, 01:19 PM
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Default Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project

The thing is, I actually do live in the real world and was taught as a child
to be respectful to others opinions and debate them in a polite manner. To
tell me to grow up just proves my point in how rude you and some other
individuals are. If you cannot debate a subject without turning to insults
or snide remarks then maybe it is you who needs to grow up and learn manners
and the art of mature debate. Childish and offensive behaviour puts many of
us off contributing to this forum.

Andrew
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