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Tyers for a Bristol 407

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Old 28-07-10, 11:22 AM
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Default Tyers for a Bristol 407

I am in the market for tyers for my 407. any advice re suitabilty or availability would be welcome
Mick
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Old 28-07-10, 01:43 PM
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If you like to go fast put Vredestein 185 x 16 from Longstone or Vintage tyres or you can try Taxi tyres for about a quarter of the price 175 x 16.

Avon Turbospeed 600 x 16 are correct but you wander all over :-)
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Old 28-07-10, 02:10 PM
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Default Tyres for a 407

Hi Mick,
After spending ages pontificating about the fact that a 407 ought to have crossply tyres, as that what they were designed to take, I ended up, after 9 years of arm twisting the Avon Turbospeeds as per the handbook, changing to Michelin X.
These have been fantastic, no more tramlineing, a far better ride, better fuel consumption and quieter. I have felt a right chump!.
They were available when the car was new and so in my mind are acceptable as the period is correct.
The size is, 185 R 16, they are H rated ie OK for a Max of 210km/h or 130mph.It is also wise to fit inner tubes.
You must get the right speed rating, as you will not be covered by insurance if you have tyres rated at a lower speed than your car is capable of doing.
They are readily obtainable in the UK from Longstone or Vintage tyres, you will not get a discount even in the trade, you might get carriage thrown in.

NickC 407 6028.
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Old 28-07-10, 02:12 PM
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Default Tyres for a 407

If you put on Taxi tyres you will be illegal!
Nick
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Old 28-07-10, 02:46 PM
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Default Tyers for a Bristol 407

I agree with Greg.

http://www.stefanopasini.it/Bristol_409-Vredestein.htm

My car arrived with 'Austone' tyres usually fitted on cabs. Cheap, sturdy,
the car drove straight but they are not legal (speed rating is very low.)
The 6.00x16 Avons I fitted to replace them were quiet and looked perfect,
but the 409 developed a sudden, unexplainable 'pull' to the right that no
swapping of tires or adjustment of the front suspensions could cure. I
fitted four 185x16 Vredesteins and the 409 now drives straight and has a
better handling, though you might feel a bit more road noise. They look
correct, too.

Perhaps the Pirelli Cinturato and Michelin X would be as good as the
Vredesteins, but I have no proof of that they are much more expensive....so
I recommend the Vredestein 'Classic Sprint'

Ciao

Stefano
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Old 28-07-10, 06:10 PM
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The speed rating is 90 mph for Taxi tyres. I have been told it's not illegal to use them. I also have a London cab and I think they are closer to the original cross plye with a better ride.

Up to you.
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Old 28-07-10, 07:06 PM
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Default Tyers for a Bristol 407

I use Vredenstein 185 x 15 on my 408 - no problem - good price, good loocking.Best Hans
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Old 28-07-10, 08:16 PM
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Default Tyers for a Bristol 407

Greg, I think you will find that to be legal, tyres need to have a speed
rating that exceeds the maximum speed of the vehicle to which they are
fitted, regardless of the speed at which you intend to drive.
Surely a 407 is capable of more than 90 mph?
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Old 28-07-10, 08:55 PM
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Default Tyers for a Bristol 407

I have had Vredenstein's on my 410 for a number of years now, they are good tyres not too expensive, look right for the car and are the correct speed rating.
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Old 28-07-10, 10:39 PM
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Taken from a UK tyre web site showing a Taxi tyre is LEGAL up to 99MPH --

TYRE SPEED SYMBOLS & CATEGORIES
back to Technical Information Index Page
Most car and van tyres used in the UK have both a load and speed rating after the tyre size, e.g. 195/65R15 is usually followed by 91V. This means the tyres can carry their rated load upto a maximum non-stop speed of 240 kph. When replacing tyres it is important to ensure the new tyres, even if a different size, have the same or a higher speed rating. However, in the UK, with a national speed limit of 70 mph, it is quite safe and not illegal to fit a tyre with a lower speed rating, provided you do not exceed this reduced rating. The table below shows the maximum speeds applicable to each speed letter.
Max Speed
(sustained)
Kilometres/hr Speed Rating Max Speed
(sustained)
Miles/hr
N P Q R S T U H V W Y Z
300 Kph 190 Mph
290 Kph
280 Kph
270 Kph 170 Mph
260 Kph
250 Kph
240 Kph 150 Mph
230 Kph
220 Kph
210 Kph 130 Mph
200 Kph 125 Mph
190 Kph 119 Mph
180 Kph 113 Mph
170 Kph 106 Mph
160 Kph 100 Mph
150 Kph 94 Mph
140 Kph 88 Mph
130 Kph 81 Mph
120 Kph 75 Mph
Max Speed
(sustained)
Kilometres/hr N P Q R S T U H V W Y Z Max Speed
(sustained)
Miles/hr
Speed Rating

Marking Charactistics
Speed Symbol "N" For vehicles with a speed capability not exceeding 140 Km/h (88 Mph)
Speed Symbol "P" For vehicles with a speed capability not exceeding 150 Km/h (94 Mph)
Speed Symbol "Q" For vehicles with a speed capability not exceeding 160 Km/h (100 Mph)
Speed Symbol "R" For vehicles with a speed capability not exceeding 170 Km/h (106 Mph)
Speed Symbol "S" For vehicles with a speed capability not exceeding 180 Km/h (113 Mph)
Speed Symbol "T" For vehicles with a speed capability not exceeding 190 Km/h (119 Mph)
Speed Symbol "U" For vehicles with a speed capability not exceeding 200 Km/h (125 Mph)
Speed Symbol "H" For vehicles with a speed capability not exceeding 210 Km/h (130 Mph)
Speed Symbol "V" For vehicles with a speed capability not exceeding 240 Km/h (e.g. 225/55 R 15 91V)
Speed Symbol "W" For vehicles having speed capability not exceeding 270 Km/h (e.g. 225/60 R 15 96W)
Speed Symbol "Y" For vehicles having speed capability not exceeding 300 Km/h (e.g. 275/40 R 18 94Y)
Speed Category "VR" For vehicles having speed capability over 210 Km/h (e.g. 195/50 VR 15)
Speed Category "ZR" For vehicles with a speed capability over 240 Km/h (e.g. 205/40 ZR 17)
ZR+ Speed Symbol "W" Tyres marked with both designations for vehicles with speed capability over 240 Km/h but not exceeding 270 Km/h
ZR+ Speed Symbol "Y" Tyres marked with both designations for vehicles with speed capability over 240 Km/h but not exceeding 300 Km/h

Other Technical links:
Tyre Load Tables || Tyre Size Calculator || Vehicle Wheel Fitment

to Technical Information Index Page || to Top of Page || to First Page || Site Index & Enquiries
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Old 29-07-10, 05:29 AM
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Default Tyers for a Bristol 407

Hello Greg,


the 'taxi' tires fitted on my 409 when I bought it were marked 'C' (as for
'Cargo', I suppose, i.e. vans etc; later I found on the Austone web site
that they are widely used on cabs) and the speed rating for these tires is
very low. Even if they are good tires and probably safe up to 99 mph, a 409
has a declared top speed of 132 mph and weighs nearly 2 tons, so the MoT
would never pass it with 99mph tires; even more important, in case of an
accident the insurance company would not pay any damage.

BTW, what tire pressures are you using on your V8 Bristols?

Cheers

Stefano
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Old 29-07-10, 06:29 AM
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Hi Stefano,

I thought that the statement lifted from a U.K. tyre company would finally dispel the myth that Taxi tyres are illegal in the U.K. !! I should have known better.

The Bristol will still pass an MOT with Taxi tyres -- lots of them do. Just to be safe you can inform your insurance company what tyres you have fitted. Does anyone think cross ply tyres are safer than Taxi tyres ?

Taxi tyres are essentially a van tyre (and we all know how fast white vans go ) with a stiffer wall and can easily handle the weight of a Bristol. How much do you think a London cab weighs ? especially with 7 people and luggage.

As Stefano says, his car was purchased with Taxi tyres on and had probably passed the MOT with them on.

I run the tyres on my Taxi at 30 psi, the same as my Bristols.

It's up to you......
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Old 29-07-10, 07:22 AM
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Hi Greg
They might be legal in the UK but surely Stefano has to comply with Italian legislation.
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Old 29-07-10, 07:26 AM
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quote Hi Greg
They might be legal in the UK but unfortunately Stefano has to comply with Italian legislation.
Today 08:29 AM

First prize for stating the bleeding obvious!

I know Stefano uses Vreds now ( the best in my opinion )

I was answering the original question.
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Old 29-07-10, 07:46 AM
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Default Tyers for a Bristol 407

Hello Greg,
out of curiosity, I rang my insurance broker and asked about the matter.
They would not accept a low speed rated tire on a car insured by them. I
fully agree that cross-ply tires are not safer than those 'taxi' tires but
the law requirements in Italy are extremely strict about tires and in case
of an accident there would be trouble if I had fitted taxi tires with a low
speed rating.

During the long and exceedingly tiresome process of registering the 409 in
Italy, the MoT inspector confirmed that they require tires of a speed rating
exceeding the declared top speed of the car (this applies to vans too,
incidentally, so those fast Mercdes-Benz 'Sprinters' use special tires) and
thus the Austone tires were not approved, even if I pointed out that they
were good enought to pass the British MoT. I passed the inspection with the
Avons.

I am using 38-39 psi now on my 409....maybe too hard, but this summer is
very hot and I have been always told that when temperatures go near 40C it
is better to keep the tires a bit overinflated. Or is wrong? Surely the ride
is a bit hard....

Cheers

Stefano
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Old 29-07-10, 07:56 AM
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I was only commenting on the UK

39 does sound high and I thought hot air expanded.

Let me know if you find out any more on if it's correct to over inflate in high temperatures. I would of thought that it's the other way round if anything.

The "C" is not for cargo. It's a load rating.
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Old 29-07-10, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasini s View Post
I am using 38-39 psi now on my 409....maybe too hard, but this summer is very hot and I have been always told that when temperatures go near 40C it is better to keep the tires a bit overinflated. Or is wrong? Surely the ride is a bit hard....
Hi Stefano,

This doesn't make sense to me for normal everyday use. My understanding is that tyre pressure increases with heat. If your tyre pressure is 39 when cold, add in the heat of a summer's day and some friction from driving and your pressures may end up at 45 psi.

That's probably not a safety issue but it would definitely make for a hard ride.

The only time I have ever run with tyre pressures at around 40 psi is on a track or a road rally. Makes a big difference to handling.

Personally I think you should experiment with the tyre pressures of your V8 Bristol in the 28-32 psi range, see what feels right/best.

Cheers,
Kevin
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Old 29-07-10, 09:15 AM
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Default Tyers for a Bristol 407

Dear Greg, Stefano,
Isn't the EU wonderful?
I keep trying to avoid getting into discussions on subjects about which I
don't know enough.
As a general rule I would say it's wise to stick to the manufacturer's
recommendations on tyre sizes and pressures, but obviously choosing tyres
gets trickier if the manufacturer was unaware of the advent of radials when
the car was designed.
Recommended tyre pressures are based on achieving the correct footprint on
the road surface. So if the weather gets hotter, you would need to let out
some air to get back to the recommended pressures. Radial tyres should never
be driven underinflated, but because of their better shape retention, a
certain degree of over inflation is quite acceptable. It doesn't change the
area in contact with the road anything like as much as it does with crossply
tyres. So you should actually be more careful with tyre pressures when the
weather turns colder. With crossply tyres, correct pressure is not only
important for grip, but also for tread wear.
Regarding the insurance issue and legality. I would call someone else's
insurance company and say you are just "considering" fitting taxi tyres....
And in the UK, I wouldn't start a discussion with the MOT examiner if you
already have....
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Old 29-07-10, 09:35 AM
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Smile tyres for 407

Thanks to you all for your very helpfull coments re the tyres for my 407. After reading them and contacting other Bristol owners I know I have ordered a set of Vredestein sprint classics. I did however have just a little difficulty finding a dealer who had them in stock as they seem to have dissapeared from the manufacturers list of products in 16" rim size. I eventualy ordered them from Vintage tyres who gave me an all in price of 701. All I have to do now is get them fitted.
Thanks once again for your help

Mick
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Old 29-07-10, 10:32 AM
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Yes, I think the Vreds are probably the best choice all round :-)

My only gripe is the price for the 185 x 16 that the dealers charge. As far as I know only Vintage Tyres and Longstone Tyres sell them and they seem artificially high and maybe a Cartel. When I had my 408 I was tempted to get the wheels banded to enable the fitting of a more popular / cheaper tyre -- maybe 205x16. The other option was to fit the steel wheels from the full size spare of a modern Mercedes E class ( same pcd up to 410 - I think )

I think at around 200 for five,I would definitely put Taxi tyres on a 6 cylinder and maybe a V8. Depends on how you drive it.

Fit for purpose - is the UK MOT criteria

Glad we could help
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