6 cyl Gaskets (head)

[Hydroglen]

I don't think BCL was selling a defective product. It was a gasket that
worked for BMW and one little hole may make a 10% difference in cooling.
The BIG issue was the lack of a satisfactory answer to the client and by
sayng he was the only one to complain, it was sort of blaming the customer.
I disagree with the comments made that a professional installer would have
seen the difference. Maybe.... maybe not.
What all this has shown us is that there has been some "overselling" by BCL.
They gets their supplies of spares were they can...same as the rest of us.
Therefore shopping with BCL, B May, Spencer Lane Jones, the Australian club
and others may well be all the same.
Claude brought up his hub cap issue...and years later his hub cap is still
"under observation" at BCL or perhaps used as an ashtray! A refund or the
offer of a discount on future purchases would have been a more appropriate
answer.
All a matter of communication.
Cheers,
Dorien

[Rubbond]

Now Eric for once I do agree with you.
It might even have been me that mentioned the BMW 328 but simply as a guess,
and because the packaging was written in german, wasn't it?
Doesn't someone know both engines, who could resolve this?
What did Bristol say? Or did you not ask?
Ian.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by Rubbond

and because the packaging was written in german, wasn't it?
Doesn't someone know both engines, who could resolve this?

Because it was written in German doesn't mean it was German! Noting a grammatical error (!), I looked up the manufacturer, Spesso, and they appear to be Italian, Home page

I am certainly not a BMW 328 expert but there is a Czech website, :: www.bmw328.net :: which offers spares for the BMW 328. On this website there is a picture of the original block and head gasket which I have copied into the attached file and compared with Eric's pictures. Lo and behold to my untrained eyes, the BMW appears also has that elusive hole!

Also don't forget that many BMW 328's have Bristol heads.

By the way the gasket on the Czech site costs 72 Euros!

Hope this is of interest
Richard

[Eric Brumenil]

Originally Posted by Rubbond

What did Bristol say?
Ian.

A genial director sold me a special cylinder head gasket for £163.3
See photo attached !
When I came to my machine shop with this rarity , the guy was laughing !
First because the thickness of the gasket was about 2.5 mm instead of 1 mm , modifying the volumetric ratio and he told me that copper cylinder head gaskets are not exactely appropriated for high volumetric ratio ( 10:1 in my case )

For the surplus : I have just one right .... to shut up

[Eric Brumenil]

BMW 328 seems to be different
I found this web site in Czech Republic
http://www.bmw328.net/downloads/ersatzteilliste.pdf

[Geoff Kingston]

If you click the link to other item from the seller of this gasket you will find a listing and contact details for TT Workshops, also a listing for a different pre war BMW gasket. It must either be TT Workshops or someone connected with them who is selling this gasket. Ask seller a question perhaps?
TT have worked on pre war BMW's and Bristol's for as long as I can remember so their thoughts on the matter would be quite interesting.
Geoff.

[Claude]

Originally Posted by Hydroglen

I don't think BCL was selling a defective product. ...
The BIG issue was the lack of a satisfactory answer to the client and by
sayng he was the only one to complain, it was sort of blaming the customer.

First a nationality comment: In America the ethos on customer support is consumer heaven because it is a culture of generosity and excess. If something is wrong, they replace it or refund your money, and if they have screwed up they give you a gift to say sorry. In contrast, in England, the culture is one of scarcity and deprivation.

This is a direct outcome of the Norman Conquest where the winners confiscated all the wealth of the nation, and then allocated just enough to the losers for them to survive and keep the economy running. Over the generations, the losers (Anglo Saxons, Celts and other pre-Normans) began to integrate this scarcity mentality into their belief system. When money took over from land as the core definition of wealth, this scarcity mentality was so deeply embedded in the genetic make-up, that it continued even as the losers became wealthy. By wealth I mean all the food and clothing one can imagine, a warm home that one can own, education, suffrage, freedom and means to travel more than 10 miles from ones birthplace, an infinite choice in entertainment, etc. This embedded national psychic damage can be baffling as well as maddening for any non-Brit when they go to buy something from an Englishman.

The American attitude is lowest price, best product, best relationship with customer and give something away for free. The British attitude is highest price the market will bear, provided of course we are paying attention to price, eccentric product, relationship? what's that have to do with business?, and even if it was free to us, we'll charge you for it. Gradually this attitude is going away as GB plays in the global market and learns the new rules.

So our friend Eric is first of all encountering a cultural roadblock. He just doesn't get it.

Next distinction has to do with size. In a company the size of BMW, one has thousands of engineers and business types all working like a bee hive to make sure that everything works with precision. In a company the size of Bristol, we are remarkably reliant on the knowledge carried around inside the skulls of a few gentlemen. Not only that, but instead of just focusing on the last 10 years of their product (which is all that is required by law), they maintain a knowledge base that expands each year, going all the way back to 1944. Clearly this is not a business. These gentlemen do this because they are British. It's like cricket.

On the one hand, this is both charming and delightful, as well as useful. When one needs to know something, first-hand knowledge is there. On the other hand, it can result in the sort of problems Eric encountered. While it is easy to puff about how this is bad form or incompetence, in fact, it is a natural outcome of the structure of a small company. It is why small companies do not survive in the car industry. Bristol survives only because their price tag is not governed by competition, they have a niche.

In the end, Eric is applying the wrong standard. He should accept that in owning a Bristol based product he is working with a small group of enthusiastic men who have chosen to work to keep an eccentric, distinctly British icon alive, and as such, the problems he has comes with the territory. He can prod them to do better, and no doubt that will help in the specific case of the missing hole, but overall, these sorts of things will happen because of the inherent nature of small businesses that do their own engineering (if you doubt this, try buying software from a small company).

I do note that Eric has not complained much about the Arnolt Motor Company which is where he should be focusing his ire. After all, they commissioned and sold the products, Bristol was merely a wholesale supplier. Of course the reason he does not complain about Arnolt is death... both the owner and the company died. And that is the point. He is targeting Bristol because they are still in business, and he throws their own aspirational words back at them when they fail to attain.

Eric, my advice to you is to sell up, move on, and select a marque that has no survivor. Bond with a vintage restoration place that will make from scratch whatever you need and have more fun and less angst with your hobby. After all, vintage cars are not a necessity of life. We play with them to have fun, to enjoy the company of other collectors, be it racing, or the more genteel jaunt across the countryside enjoying bucolic vistas whilst stopping in a country inn for a meal and glass that brings great joy.

Claude

[GREG]

Quote -- We play with them to have fun, to enjoy the company of other collectors, be it racing, or the more genteel jaunt across the countryside enjoying bucolic vistas whilst stopping in a country inn for a meal and glass that brings great joy. Quote --

I agree Claude. It's all a bit of a hobby and a bit of fun for most. Maybe Eric is a car dealer and profit is a major concern ? Still no reason for him to be treated badly ,but the way it is dealt with is and rectified maybe different.

Hardly any wonder that the "Nutter! comment is mentioned when one minute there are threats of legal action and adverts / web sites showing all correspondence, then weeks later, all we have is Eric's word that any of this happened but no facts ! And of course the gasket that is used by many owners but not good enough for Eric's car. ( although I agree that he should have been advised about the hole modification )

All of the conspiracy theories Eric dreams up don't help his case either -- not one correct yet ! In fact ramblings of a Nutter.

Unless Eric does what he says and shows us something, he will always be looked at with a degree of doubt.

Contrary to what Eric believes, to begin with, I think most people that read the initial postings sympathised and supported his fight for justice.

I think all the venom, accusations of collusion, rants and none of the evidence that was threatened / promised has lost a lot of that initial sympathy and interest.

P.S - I don't work for Bristol and as far as I am aware nobody else does that posts on this forum and I dislike Belgium people no more than any other Nationality.


Anyone know where I can get some 411 windscreen rubbers - quick

[pasini s]

I think that Claude's words about 'British Peculiarities' are absolutely
spot-on and I plan to have them etched somewhere and framed, then hung on
the wall of my practice. If somebody does not understand the peculiarities
of classic British cars, why buy one? Go ahead and buy a classic racing
Porsche....then (as it happened to me 4 days ago) you will be asked Euro 350
for a manifold and Euro 2200 (twothousandtwohundredeuros....) to shoehorn it
into the engine bay. Does it mean that I feel that I have any rights to
complain with the best from Stuttgart? No. They are doing what they have to
do, that's it.

Cheers from a very rainy Italy,
Stefano

[GREG]

[quote=pasini s;3936]I think that Claude's words about 'British Peculiarities' are absolutely
spot-on (/QUOTE]


And I don't think any of us English people would apologise for that, and why should we ? It's probably why Bristol exist and have kept going :- )

Maybe we are all been mistreated and treated unfairly ! - but do we care ?

Or are the cool machines we drive around worth it ? I know a lot of makes of car that make so much more sense as a classic but ..................... don't want one.

Although my London Cab is cool also :-)

[Geoff Kingston]

In the early 80's I worked in London with a Solicitor who said that he generally preferred cats to people, reading some of the comments on this forum I understand exactly what he meant.
Depending on your point of view its getting almost as good/bad as disco web a site where owners of the product of Landrover such as myself can go for sympathy and abuse in equal measure,
Meow!!

[Eric Brumenil]

Originally Posted by pasini s

as it happened to me 4 days ago) you will be asked Euro 350 for a manifold and Euro 2200 (twothousandtwohundredeuros....) to shoehorn it into the engine bay.
Does it mean that I feel that I have any rights to
complain with the best from Stuttgart? No. They are doing what they have to do, that's it.
Stefano

Stefano ,
if your quoted expensive Porsche manifold didn’t have the correct number of holes !!!
Would you accept it as it ?

[Hydroglen]

Eric,
You are making too much about this gasket. It works... and so it is not
defective.
As I said before, maybe a 10% difference in cooling. The other poster with
the seatbelt cover is more serious. It is basically a cosmetic piece that is
obviously not for that car and so useless.
We have established that BCL is struggling in coming up with parts for older
cars, and their advertising is a bit misleading.
Re Stefano... why he has to pay euro 2200 to shoehorn a manifold in? Maybe
it has the wrong number of holes and is the wrong one and hence the
expensive labour to fit it LOL.
Look on the bright side!
Dorien

[bristolblue]

Hi,
I have a sailing yacht and when I bought it luckily the hull had no hole.
Life is so different.
In Germany we have the # Pfennigfuchser #
in Great Britain we have the # bean counter #
in the Netherlands we have the # mieren neuker # and one grade higher
in Belgium we have the #amoeben neuker#
You dont go to court if You are using these words to a police officer.
I have enough of these one sided stories. Lets hear the other side?
No lets stop here. Hole or no hole.
Thanks

. >

[Eric Brumenil]

Originally Posted by GREG

all we have is Eric's word that any of this happened but no facts ! And of course the gasket that is used by many owners but not good enough for Eric's car.

It is very easy to joke when you are not concerned
In my opinion , a cylinder head gasket is good or not
but it can be in an intermediate condition
It suits or not your engine type & specification

I am interested to know how many customers would have accepted to have this type of cylinder head gasket installed if he ( she) has been previously informed .
This without any consideration of price of course !

Greg would you ?

The biggest problem they have with me is that I have written no lies
I am attacked only on my lack of English knowledge
None of my assertion on technical problems have been contradicted !!!

[Eric Brumenil]

Originally Posted by Eric Brumenil

In my opinion , a cylinder head gasket is good or not

I am interested to know how many customers would have accepted to have this type of cylinder head gasket installed if he ( she) has been previously informed .
This without any consideration of price of course !

Greg would you ?

Greg , it looks you have a nice car in very good condition

why d'ont you answer my question ?

Would you accept to have such parts installed on your car ?

[RGSchmitt]

At 04:49 PM 11/20/2010, you wrote:
(Please type your reply below this line!!)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Customer: "The head gasket you sent me was missing a cooling system
hole, so my mechanic punched one and it got installed OK"

Factory: "Thanks for that. None of our other customers mentioned
that to us. We'll check the original drawings and inform our supplier."

[UK6]

Factory: We are sorry to learn that you received the incorrect head gasket.
Please return the part- we will pay freight and air freight you the correct
head gasket within 24 hrs. Please accept our sincere apology.

Note: Any modification to factory parts will void warranty.

Customer: Thank you for your prompt attention - it is nice dealing with such
a reputable company.





-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(Please type your reply above this line!!)

You may increase the space between the above lines as needed.

______________________
CURRENT MESSAGE FROM: RGSchmitt

At 04:49 PM 11/20/2010, you wrote:
(Please type your reply below this line!!)

[Eric Brumenil]

Originally Posted by RGSchmitt

Factory: "Thanks for that. None of our other customers mentioned
that to us. We'll check the original drawings and inform our supplier."

This is exactly what fair trading suggests to do

I thought it will be like that

[peterf]

Hi Bellerophon,

Thank you for the information on the head gasket - appreciated.
I noticed that the gasket "SET" on Ebay sold although I am not sure how complete the "set" really was.

Thanks again

Cheers

PeterF