Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project

[devadmin]

Originally Posted by dave dale

BTW, following my initial reply directed to Gordon on the forum on 28/01, every posting in this thread has appeared in my Outlook Express inbox as well as on the forum. Any idea please on how to stop this happening ? Thank you.
Dave Dale.

Dave, I have set your email notifications for this forum to "No Email Notifications", but I noticed that you had some other forums set to receive a daily email update.

You can always change your email notification settings by going into Member Options (you must be logged in otherwise Member Options will not appear on the menu). Then go into "Edit FORUM Subscriptions" (scroll down to see it on the left hand side menu). After changing the email notification subscriptions be sure to click "Update" at the bottom of the page.

Any problems please let me know.

Kevin

[dave dale]

Kevin,

Thanks for that. Actually I DO want notification to my email address that posts have arrived for my selected topics, but only that information. That's how it works for me normally. What was happening with the correspondance regarding Gordon's postings was that the whole posting and all the replies were appearing in full in my Outlook Express inbox.
I'll try to sort this out to get back to normal, using your guide below. I hope not to trouble you again but if I get stuck I will let you know. Many thanks.
Dave Dale.

Originally Posted by devadmin

Dave, I have set your email notifications for this forum to "No Email Notifications", but I noticed that you had some other forums set to receive a daily email update.

You can always change your email notification settings by going into Member Options (you must be logged in otherwise Member Options will not appear on the menu). Then go into "Edit FORUM Subscriptions" (scroll down to see it on the left hand side menu). After changing the email notification subscriptions be sure to click "Update" at the bottom of the page.

Any problems please let me know.

Kevin

[gjaf]

post removed

[browning l]

Post removed.

[lansdownplace]

That isn't correct. Tavistock have an interest in Bristol Cars which
isn't necessairly the same as being sole owners. Tavistock have
interests in lts of things they don't wholly own. Who has what
shares (or indeed of what type and rights) is unknown. Toby most
certainly controls it and if he has investors that isn't any of our
business really.

I thought the tone of your post a little disparaging if you don't
minnd my saying

Paul

[bristolblue]

This is not a new story. Thats on old story. Some years old. Why repeating
on old story?
So, what?

[LukeHansen]

I think that your comments are somewhat over the top. At least the boy is
trying. I think he did quite well - he does say it is a first draft after
all. When did you ever produce such a document, Mr Browning? Or in your day
were things different? (Cue for lecture on how the world has changed for
the worse....)

[browning l]

Originally Posted by lansdownplace

That isn't correct. Tavistock have an interest in Bristol Cars which isn't necessairly the same as being sole owners. Tavistock have interests in lts of things they don't wholly own. Who has what shares (or indeed of what type and rights) is unknown. Toby most
certainly controls it and if he has investors that isn't any of our
business really.

I thought the tone of your post a little disparaging if you don't
minnd my saying

Paul

I have no problem with your reaction, Paul...I responded to a request for comment based on my perception of the quality of the work presented. He will gain more by thinking about my response, than if it were not "a little disparaging." Young students need to learn and appreciate that in order to gain approval of their efforts, they must present quality work. I don't think he did. In his response to me, he did not seem offended; maybe his style is not to show offense.

It is easy for any of us to take exception to another's style, comments, or content. Styles differ from culture to culture, and within a culture; British MPs, for example, are permiited to attack opposing members in the House in a way that is absolutly not acceptable in the US Congress, as recent events have proven.

Just yesterday, for example, in a Congressional hearing, one Congressman felt obligated to apologize to Mr. Toyoda for his treatment from other committee members.

I'm not in a position to debate the degree of Tavistock's ownership or control, but it does exist, it is pertinent, and the author either ignored it, or didn't know it. To me, he should know it, and included a reference instead of what he did write.

[Claude]

Originally Posted by gjaf

post removed

I did read the whole document, although I did not study some of the drawings to the point of total comprehension.

In science, there is a problem when the objective observer brings his own mask of what passes for reality and therefore produces his evaluation and interpretations based on that mask.

In philosophy I have always been fascinated how Plato understood this problem, and therefore wrote his dialogues as a mirror so that the academic who would interpret them would write about their own view of reality rather than that of Socrates. I tend to think this is why his works have survived.

In this same vein, I must commend Mr. Farquar for his hard work, but at the same time suggest that it fails to accomplish what it represents to achieve.

We have come to define reality in a particular way, which among other things, sets a particular standard for what constitutes a good web site, a subject that Mr. Farquar critiques with a scathing review. He presents as the model of excellence the work product of top photographers, graphic designers and advertising agencies. The reality of course is different. Most land rovers, for example will not be found on a low tide beach, breathing the brisk fresh air of the seaside, but in an upscale carpark or picking the kiddies up from school. Most upscale 4 wheel drives are never put through their paces; it's all about image. Especially among the young, the blurring of reality with image is such that the derivative reality is becoming more real for them than the physical. To put it bluntly, the web site is irrelevant to Bristol or Bristol reality. It is important to Mr. Farquar because he believes it is important. He is of the derivative reality generation.

I found the reference to Robert Farago's on-line review of Bristols to be inappropriate. Mr. Farago was unable to get any interest from Bristol Cars or any owner of a reasonable condition late model car. So instead he borrowed a junker. The balance of the quote would have revealed:

"What are the two things that can be seen from outer space?" the owner asked rhetorically. "The Great Wall of China and the panel gaps of a Bristol." True enough, despite the fact that this particular Blenheim had recently enjoyed a body-off restoration– to eliminate rot. Which was discovered after the car's paint had cracked (necessitating a total re-spray). Whereupon the owner's mechanics addressed a veritable laundry list of mechanical ailments: inoperative air conditioning, "inappropriate" shock absorbers, a failed exhaust system, two blown window motors, axle whine, insufficient engine cooling and more."

Inappropriate shock absorbers, a failed body off restoration... the reviewed car was a scam, and the owner a hapless victim. From the description, it sounds as if the car would have been in a scrap heap had it had an ordinary badge on it. Instead it is a bodge, a tarted up old car bought by an unsuspecting fool.

Quoting Robert Farago's review is at the same level as quoting the Sun. Gossip not news.

I would rather have facts. Please measure the gaps of a new Bristol in the showroom. Are they consistent? How do they compare to other cars... and is there some standard about how wide or narrow the gap should be? Is it evidence of bad manufacture? Proof please, not gossip about a worn out heap.

The death trap page again shows the mask through which the author writes. He believes in computers. He believes in anti-lock brakes, traction control and air bags. I do not know if the statistics have changed, but Tony Crook used to claim that only three people have died in Bristols... one pulverized by a lorry, another drove off a cliff. In fact, I inspected and photographed a 410 that fell off a mountain in New York state and went through the roof of a barn. Not only did the occupants survive, the car did. Bristols are extremely strong cars that use a separate chassis and an energy absorbing aluminium body to protect the occupants.

"...completely irresponsible" is a nanny-state view of life. It is a belief that we must rely on engineering rather than skill, that we do not need to learn to drive, but only to operate the joystick; that the software will keep us out of trouble. This is a view of reality, indeed one very strong both in England, and in my country of New Zealand. However, it is not the reality of Bristol Cars or its customers.

Bristol sells cars in which the software is wired into the DNA. The driver learns how to brake in ice, snow or gravel so the wheels do not lock. The driver learns how much gas to give so the tyres do not lose traction. The driver learns how to avoid crashes, and for safety buckles up. In short, the buyer of a Bristol is mature, has learned to drive the car, and selects it for these very virtues. Again, we have a clash of realities

Question Mr. Farquar. Have you ever been in a car crash and been hit by the airbag? If not, try it. It may cause you to re-evaluate page 50.

Finally, I note the owner's survey has a fundamental flaw in it. I may have missed it, but it is important to state the average age of the cars covered in the survey. The 412 came out thirty-five years ago. The Brigand shortly thereafter. These are not "cars" in the sense of the review. These are antiques. Their owners are not car buyers, they are collectors. There is a world of difference between a buyer of a new or late model Bristol and the gentlemen (and occasional lady) of our various clubs. While it is more fruitful to send a questionnaire to the collectors, it is worthless in a document focused on the future.

Overall, Mr. Farquar, it was well assembled document, looks like you have mastered InDesign and Photoshop, and you have a good career ahead of you in the world of virtual reality.

But next time, if I may suggest it, do the story on BMW, Ford or another manufacturer who shares your reality mask.

Claude

[Nick Challacombe]

Well said Ozy,

Nick

[Jervaulx]

Whilst people have different opinions, I am shocked at how rude and
aggressive a number of individuals are on this forum and this is a regular
occurrence. It doesn't matter whether an individual either just happens to
have a different opinion or whether they are talking rubbish, they are
entitled to be spoken to politely and with respect. I take it too many
members of this forum have forgotten what good manners and respect for a
different opinion means and frankly I am getting a bit sick and tired of
reading tirades against individuals. If people weren't so rude, there would
be many more individuals ready to contribute to this forum.

Andrew

[ozy]

Originally Posted by Jervaulx

I am shocked at how rude and
aggressive a number of individuals are on this forum and this is a regular
occurrence. If people weren't so rude, there would
be many more individuals ready to contribute to this forum.

Andrew

Andrew - I am not sure whether or not your commentry may be directed at me amongst others but I should like to add my response to it. You need to live in the real world and grow up a bit. I am sure we would all look forward to your contributions. I would love to see more technical discussions and resources on this forum. What I don't like to see are empty vessels making the most noise about nothing or spouting effete, politically correct, lefty/metrosexual rubbish.

Originally Posted by Jervaulx

It doesn't matter whether an individual either just happens to have a different opinion or whether they are talking rubbish, they are entitled to be spoken to politely and with respect.

Andrew

Really, I'm of the 'sow the wind reap the whirlwind school of thought' I didn't think the design student was treated with respect and so I spoke out.

Originally Posted by Jervaulx

. I take it too many members of this forum have forgotten what good manners and respect for a different opinion means and frankly I am getting a bit sick and tired of reading tirades against individuals.

Andrew

I am sure you are right - perhaps a person of your delicate disposition should refrain from reading such upsetting tirades as they might give you nightmares! I would also advise not watching Dr Who but wonder whether or not you may prefer Torchwood?

Solicitously yours and hoping to balm your fevered brow with a soothing unction,

Ozy,

[ozy]

Originally Posted by Nick Challacombe

Well said Ozy,

Nick

Thanks Nick, with the departure of Pippa someone has to take up the baton in being forthright & controversial and it might as well be me. Whereas I cannot contribute the female standpoint, I believe that my humble solid waste management operative's opining may be of interest to some.,

In friendship,

Ozy

[Jervaulx]

The thing is, I actually do live in the real world and was taught as a child
to be respectful to others opinions and debate them in a polite manner. To
tell me to grow up just proves my point in how rude you and some other
individuals are. If you cannot debate a subject without turning to insults
or snide remarks then maybe it is you who needs to grow up and learn manners
and the art of mature debate. Childish and offensive behaviour puts many of
us off contributing to this forum.

Andrew