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LJK Setright

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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-09, 04:36 PM
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Default LJK Setright

I'm glad mine doesn't!
What if there are cars behind you and you, or in this case your car, over
reacts?
Andrew.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-09, 05:45 PM
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[deleted] double post
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-09, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blenheim Boy View Post
I also employ a method, apparently championed by Setright, of traversing speed ramps with greater smoothness. By applying the brakes with a quick stab of the pedal, just as the front wheels meet the sleeper, causes the suspension to be compressed from above and below, cancelling out the thump.
As a Fleet driver trainer, my advice would be to brake (if needed) before the ramp and release the brakes just before the upslope.
This allows the nose of the vehicle to rise just as the wheels try to rise, giving some relief to the shockers.
Your (Setright's) technique means that the suspension is already compressed, at a time when it is supposed to start doing it's work, putting a greater strain on the shocker turrets.

Another technique, often used by chauffeurs on driveways with those short high type of bump, is to angle the vehicle so that you traverse them one wheel at a time, this is of course doen very slowly and is not a normal roadway method.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-09, 01:09 PM
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I think we need to be very proactive - that developing philosophies along lines similar to Brett's thoughts if we are going to survive in a future as older car custodians. Particularly so as prevailing opinions could well become increasingly hostile towards those of us with an appreciation for any classic car.
John Keighley.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-09, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penman View Post
As a Fleet driver trainer, my advice would be to brake (if needed) before the ramp and release the brakes just before the upslope.
This allows the nose of the vehicle to rise just as the wheels try to rise, giving some relief to the shockers.
Your (Setright's) technique means that the suspension is already compressed, at a time when it is supposed to start doing it's work, putting a greater strain on the shocker turrets.

Another technique, often used by chauffeurs on driveways with those short high type of bump, is to angle the vehicle so that you traverse them one wheel at a time, this is of course doen very slowly and is not a normal roadway method.
Thank you for your advice. Gratefully received!

It is possible that the technique you have described is in fact the one employed by LJKS; I received the information second hand, as the saying goes, by an individual who recalled reading a piece that Setright authored. I have not seen the article.

The method that I described does seem to be effective but I will nevertheless experiment with your method. Thank you for your imput!
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-09, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley James View Post
I have to say that for me the most remarkable classic of all time is a good MKVI Bentley. They are absolutely silent at between 70-80, they are amongst the most comfortable cars of all time, the ride can be caught out, but is as good as today's best most of the time, the steering is light and very precise and they do 19 mpg at 75mph. I've owned over fifty cars including E Types, DB5s and just about anything else you can think of, but nothing quite matches R-R's best effort after the Ghost IMO. At 55 it does 22mpg.

My 400 is a little faster, a lot noisier and rather crude by comparison, though it does handle very well for such an old car. I had to fit a Brake Servo, an MGB clutch, a modern pre-engaged starter, an anti-roll
bar, substantially re-jet the carburettors and ladle in several tons of insulation material to get noise levels low enough to stave of the divorce for a bit longer too.

As I've said before LJKS was a very good, non technical writer who wasn't terribly concerned with the accuracy of his work. I have his "History of the World's Motorcycles" and a another book of re-gurgitated old wives tales about prominent Classics, I used to read his efforts in car magazine, I didn't care for his bias in Hi Fi World and I always used to blow mu stack at the mistakes.
Can you name some of these inaccuracies? I am quite new to Setright, so I am curious to find out more about the man and his work. I found his book Drive On! to be utterly fascinating.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-09, 06:40 PM
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Default LJK Setright

I'm afraid I can't name his inaccuracies though I've been reading them on and off since the sixties, I was so cross about something he said of the BMW R100RS that I phoned him and told him so. He just never took the trouble to get things right and often regurgitated old wives tales that just weren't correct. Adam Kimberley, who was a friend towards the end agreed, though he greatly admired the LJKS writing style.

Last edited by Ashley James; 10-10-09 at 08:08 PM.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-09, 08:00 PM
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Default LJK Setright

There is a mlVI Bentley in the street about a half a mile from me
which is completely silent as it hasn't moved for at least six
months. It has a black paint job done with a house brush and some
dulux. I have to say it looks like a hearse.

Paul
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-09, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lansdownplace View Post
There is a mlVI Bentley in the street about a half a mile from me
which is completely silent as it hasn't moved for at least six
months. It has a black paint job done with a house brush and some
dulux. I have to say it looks like a hearse.

Paul
Most of the earlier cars were black with brown interiors because owners were anxious not to appear to have profited from the War. Nevertheless there are few if any classic cars of any age that ride and drive so well. They were and still are an astonishingly good car and I love their looks and always have. Quintessential British Forties styling and the last time R-R designed a car for Brit tastes.

The owner of a local factory bought one in the Forties and kept it till he died in the early seventies, I remember being stunned by it as a child and seeing around locally for years, eventually it became an ambition to own one. I've had mine since '98 and driven backwards and forwards to France in it numerous times including doing a Louis Vuitton in Paris and also all over the UK. It is so comfortable, quiet and smooth that all it lacks is air conditioning. Now I run a website providing technical support and I've made contact with other owners the world over. Most experts agree that it is the second and last time R-R made the best car in the world. So I'm sorry you don't like it, but hope that I've persuaded you to feel more kindly towards it from now on. After all, Bristols are not to everyone's taste.

Ash
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-09, 08:45 PM
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Default LJK Setright

Paul what's wrong with a car looking like a hearse? Many people are dying
for a ride in one!




Richard
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-09, 10:14 PM
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Default LJK Setright

Not a criticism of the Bentley, but one of the things I do like
about Bristols (of the metal variety) is that nobody would ever
accuse you of drivaing a wedding car which is the case with some
classics.

I did see an absolutely stunning Continental R last night in London
though
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-09, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley James View Post
I'm afraid I can't name his inaccuracies
Quote:
He just never took the trouble to get things right and often regurgitated old wives tales that just weren't correct.
I won't dispute the fact that Setright made some mistakes but he also went to the trouble to correct some of them, such as those in Bristol Cars and Engines which he owned up to in A Private Car. In reality most authors make the occasional mistake, particularly when dealing with historical information.

Frankly, if you are going to slag off a widely published an author who is deceased and cannot defend himself, the very least you can do is list the myriad inaccuracies that you claim he churned out!

Other than History of the World's Motorcycles, which particular other Setright books do you think are full of mistakes?

Kevin

PS. Who is Adam Kimberley and why should we care if he agrees with you?
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-09, 07:53 AM
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Of course the Bentley Mark VI is a very nice car.
I just don't get the point why it should be the last acceptable Bentley and why the succeeding line (S1-S3) should be any worse.

Regards,
Markus
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-09, 09:46 AM
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Default LJK Setright

Kevin
As you might imagine I don't keep books that are inaccurate and can't
remember ones I've ditched, but Setright has always been a bĂȘte noir
of mine because he was so careless with the facts. I think he
describes one race in a Bristol that was finished either with a hole
in the sump or a rod through a block. Very unlikely I'd have thought.
I've just pulled up a book called The Designers by LJKS that is full
of errors too. Or you could contrast early Bristol history in From
Chain Drive To Turbocharger by DSJ with LJKS's efforts. I should add
that I'm not alone with this view and I'm very surprised that you were
unaware of what is quite widely accepted.
Unfortunately your Forum removes all links to other sites and thus
prevents me introducing you to Adam Kimberley's musings. He is a
Consultant Anaesthetist, a Member of the Royal Institution and was a
long standing friend of LJKS, where I barely knew him through an
association with Steve Cropley and other members of Car magazine. Adam
knew him until he died and was very aware of his prejudices and his
intellect.
Lansdowne
Although you may not see Bristols as wedding cars I often get sent
pictures of them decked out with ribbons, just as I do the occasional
MKVI, usually from teasing chums. I'm comforted by the knowledge that
the Hummer has overtaken both in popularity for this particular job.
Kevin
My websites get up to one thousand uniques a day and Adam's articles
are extremely popular, so why not track them down instead of deriding
him. He's a superb photographer as well.
Ash
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-09, 11:05 AM
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Ash,
First of all, how have I "derided" Adam Kimberley, I simply asked who he was and why we should care that he agrees with you about Setright. Not unreasonable questions.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to the chap, but I don't really see how being a Consultant Anaesthetist and a Member of the Royal Institution qualifies him as a literary critic.

You compare Jenks' From Chain Drive To Turbocharger with LJKS's books, presumably with specific reference to the Bristol related sections of the former book.

Jenk's was telling a story from the Aldington's perspective and LJKS was telling the same story from the Bristol/White family perspective. Both authors were writing largely based on what they had been told by the respective families. I find it interesting that the two stories differ, but it's hardly surprising that they do and who is to say which version is the truth?

As for The Designers, it may not be one of LJKS' more applauded works, but as you have a copy this would be a good opportunity for you to be more specific about the errors you say it if full of.

Perhaps you could give us half a dozen for starters?

Kevin (aka Bamber)

PS. For the record, this site does not remove all links to other sites, as is clear from numerous posts in this thread. Click here if you wish to read my policy on linking to other sites.
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-09, 12:32 PM
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Default LJK Setright

Having had a Mk VI and an S1, I found I was happier with the Mk VI. The
gearbox is a delight and the car has a certain "feel" to it that others
are missing. The vintage look has its own appeal. I did, however, prefer
the S1 at high speed.
Dorien
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-09, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Howard View Post
Ash,
First of all, how have I "derided" Adam Kimberley, I simply asked who he was and why we should care that he agrees with you about Setright. Not unreasonable questions.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to the chap, but I don't really see how being a Consultant Anaesthetist and a Member of the Royal Institution qualifies him as a literary critic.

You compare Jenks' From Chain Drive To Turbocharger with LJKS's books, presumably with specific reference to the Bristol related sections of the former book.

Jenk's was telling a story from the Aldington's perspective and LJKS was telling the same story from the Bristol/White family perspective. Both authors were writing largely based on what they had been told by the respective families. I find it interesting that the two stories differ, but it's hardly surprising that they do and who is to say which version is the truth?

As for The Designers, it may not be one of LJKS' more applauded works, but as you have a copy this would be a good opportunity for you to be more specific about the errors you say it if full of.

Perhaps you could give us half a dozen for starters?

Kevin (aka Bamber)

PS. For the record, this site does not remove all links to other sites, as is clear from numerous posts in this thread. Click here if you wish to read my policy on linking to other sites.
Kevin

If you read some of Adam's stuff you'll find that he's exceptionally gifted and writes very much in the style of Setright although with more humour. However he's not trying to be a literary critic, his only opinion is that Setright was a brilliant writer, but not necessarily accurate. This is a fairly widespread view that you could bear in mind for the future if historical accuracy interests you.

P & A Wood is the World Heritage Rolls-Royce dealer and Andrew is one of many who feel that the '46-'55 cars are the best the company made after the Silver Ghost. The later cars are just as beautifully made, but more complex, more troublesome and above all, not very nice to drive and very much less economical. They tend to wander at speed which is a nuisance for the driver, but they are extraordinarily comfortable to ride in.

R-R's greatest leader was Lord Hives and before the war he was tasked with making the hitherto unprofitable car division profitable and he was friends with the Wilkes brothers of Rover. His influence saw to it that the MKVI and derivatives were as simple and sensible, but still of the highest quality, as could be made. The Pre War Wraith was the first of his incarnations and it was a great deal better than its predecessors. The Phantom 3 was incredibly troublesome and lost the company a great deal of money — hence the need for policy change. They were still carrying out guarantee work after the war to avoid adverse publicity! Post '45 War Hives main concern was to keep 64,000 people in a job of which only 2000 were making cars, so he left it to Grylls who started back in the direction of P3s again. He also made cars that were not suited to British roads, whereas the EPWs were sold as "Silent Sports Cars" and drove exceedingly well. Capt Eyston and Raymond Mays were amongst their champions as was Wolf Barnato and his daughter Diana.

The problem with any old R-R is that it is so different from any other car in so many ways, especially brakes, suspension and steering, that it is rare to find one that drives as it should. If you did, you'd see immediately why '46-55 cars are so revered.

I should point out that I'm expressing widely held views rather than just my own opinion and that this is explained on my websites

Ashley

PS. I'll leave it to Kevin to decide whether or not a link to my websites is permissible, although I'd have thought any links to anything could only be a benefit, for me that is what makes the internet so exciting.

PPS. IMO Jenks sticks to facts and avoids hearsay.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 11-10-09, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley James View Post
I've just pulled up a book called The Designers by LJKS that is full of errors too.
Ash are are you going to back up your claim with some facts?

I'm asking only that you provide some examples of the errors in this book, surely that's not too much to ask given the accusations you make and the fact that Setright isn't around to defend himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley James View Post
I'll leave it to Kevin to decide whether or not a link to my websites is permissible
"A" link to your JEL 450 site is quite acceptable, but at the last count you had linked to it 18 times in 13 threads. That's akin to spamming IMO
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-09, 09:00 AM
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Default LJK Setright

Kevin

I think you are beating this one to death for no real purpose. I've
opined that Setright wasn't always historically accurate and that it
annoyed me and you've stated that he admitted there were mistakes in
his Bristol book. Therefore I think it's reasonable to assume that his
other books have mistakes in them too.

I don't know if any of you read the Automobile which is an excellent
Magazine for historical accuracy, but a couple of months ago Jonathan
Wood (an excellent Historian and writer) did a piece on the 400 and,
as he usually does, introduced new and verified information to the
story. He showed that Bristol paid BMW for the drawings and he better
explained the contrasts between AFN and Bristol, so he filled in a few
holes where Jenks had stuck to facts and avoided politics and Setright
had reported hearsay. It's an interesting story and worth getting
right and Jonathan has done that.

Over the last nine years I've paid thousands of pounds out to provide
properly designed websites that contain verifiable information not
readily available anywhere else simply because I had trouble finding
it when I was rebuilding my cars. I've used some of the most
authoritative sources in the world and where possible relied on
company records. I've also published stories from owners explaining
what their cars mean to them, I've published stories of old car events
from all over the world and for the last six years I've organised
trips to France that have produced visitors from all over the world,
often from Australia and including David Neely (one time Editor of the
OZ RROC bulletin and noted R-R Historian) and Paul Samuels with his
wife who I'm sure you all know. I think it is fair to say that my
sites are now widely regarded as the best resource for the cars they
cover. As I previously stated my webstats show up to 1000 unique
visitors a day, which I think remarkable considering the number of
cars registered with the clubs. I derive no gain of any sort beyond
friendship for all this either.

Therefore if I provided a link to them in response to someone asking
technical questions, needing specialist help or suppliers on your
Forum, it is because it is the best and most helpful way to answer
their question. It is not spamming!

The only reason any of this functions is because we all love our old
cars, we like making friends and we want to help one and other. In my
view links to anything and everything are are part of this as well as
a vital source of knowledge and helpful to us all. They are not spam
either!

Ashley
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-09, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley James View Post
Kevin I think you are beating this one to death for no real purpose. I've
opined that Setright wasn't always historically accurate
Ashley, the purpose is very real.

If we were having a discussion in a pub with a handful of people present I would challenge you to "put up or shut up", but we're not, we're committing opinions to public record on a web site, which is very different.

For your convenience, in my previous post I quoted precisely what you said, which was, "I've just pulled up a book called The Designers by LJKS that is full of errors too".

Now I have invited you to point out just half a dozen errors in that book. In other words, simply back up your argument with some facts. If you are unable or unwilling to do so then I feel you should retract your previous statements and apologise to Setright.

Your call.

Kevin
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