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| Other Cars Discussion about car marques other than Bristol |
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For another example of laziness you only have to look at the air conditioning in the V8 Bristols. I don't know what they are doing today but even as late as the Blenheim 2 they were still using those ugly, inefficient "cassette" type air conditioners slung under the dash, which date back to the early 1970s. That's just a joke in a car in that price bracket. The lack of development in the V8 Bristols is even more obvious when you look at the chassis, suspension and the power train. However, rather than laziness this may have been down to economics. My guess is that the company was in terminal decline by the time Mr Silverton came along. As for whether things like air con and electric rear windows matter, it all depends upon on how you use the car. If you keep your car under wraps in a dehumidified garage and drive it only on sunny Sundays then of course it doesn't matter and you should probably strive for originality. But if you want to use a classic car as a daily driver then a few niceties become more important. I'm all for subtle/sympathetic modernisation of classic cars if they are to be used as a daily driver. The thread about electric rear windows is here . |
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The 3 litre Rover suggested already, I found to make an excellent substitute
for at least the 2 litre Brizzers. I've recently been overhauling one, to keep me occupied while I give up the fags, and it's the first time I've been really up close to one, and many things have surprisingly impressed me, (I'm surpressed) reminded me of my first intimate moments with Bristols. Set the tappets today, were left loose while running in, a right old inlet over exhaust clusterfeck, but now the thing emulates a sewing machine, a very, very quiet one, the distributor can actually be heard running. Now it occurs to me that there's nothing I would want to change or modify about the Rover, I can't say the same about the Bristol. Best rear window opener setup I've ever seen would be late 80's 2 door Nissan Sunny, 2 levers just behind handbrake, accessible by front or rear occupant, operated hinged glass via cables, brilliantly simple. |
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In the 403 the heater is not much use unless a window is open. It is hard
to believe that the cabin is that airtight, but letting air out considerably improves the flow coming in. This is particularly important when the demister is needed. Perhaps, like Ashley, I have been too effective in closing gaps in an effort to reduce noise. It is also difficult to close a door if all windows are closed. The rear side windows provide the best escape route for air, as this allows the warm air to pass through the cabin. Opening these is a struggle from the driving seat, and that is why I rarely open them. Has anyone devised a "throughflow" system like modern cars have, which would not involve visible bodywork changes? Mike Davies. |
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Edit: Photo added to show where the seat belt should go. Also photo of vent on inside of rear wing. Last edited by Kevin H; 07-11-08 at 07:27 AM. Reason: added photos |
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You're right about the a/c system. I know it allows drivers to simultaniously cook their feet and freeze their eyeballs, but surely a bought-in smaller and more efficient dual zone climate system from the likes of Behr would be 'quite easy' to engineer into the car? |
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I love my Rovers as much as anyone and I've had many over the years,
mostly P4s, but P6's, Land Rovers and now a 75 with less than 40,000 miles on the clock. Rovers and Lord Hives friendship with the Wilkes brothers was the main reason for the MKVI Bentley being the best car R-R ever made after the Ghost. He understood how well they were made and how profitable. R-R only profited from Government re-armament contracts then! The only thing my 400 has in common with a Rover is that it's a car, albeit and eccentric one. It's heavy and old fashioned to drive, but corners and handles like a modern, makes blood curdling noises and it looks a bit like the some of the Pre-War streamliners. And it's anything but airtight! I've secreted draught excluders where I can, the heater does work, but if I want to see through the windscreen I have open a side window as one always did with old cars. The opening rear window is a blessing in the summer. I'll do my tour of France in it next year when the 80+ cruising speed will be useful and then I'll make up my mind about it. Therefore if you're over there end May early June, or if you'd like to join us (there are a few beds left see www.kda132.com for shortly to appear details), keep an eye open for a Cambridge Grey (Apple Green metallic) 400 with occupants wearing bright yellow ear defenders! Ashley |
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What is it with you boys - you claim to love the cars then all you do is run them down. If so much is wrong with them why have one???
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Fighter have a specially developed air conditioning system, designed for the car at great cost? It would have presumably been much easier, as other "supercars" do, to pinch theirs from cheap mass produced cars but Bristol didn't do that. They wanted to make their car smaller and lighter so they designed their own! How can you possibly call that lazy??? When I win the lottery I am straight off to Kensington to order my new Bristol! Philippa p.s. Also am I not right that despite other comments on the lack of "proven safety features" Bristol has an exceptional safety record despite being a high performance car. [quote=Kevin Howard;490]I agree with you 100% Andrew. For another example of laziness you only have to look at the air conditioning in the V8 Bristols. I don't know what they are doing today but even as late as the Blenheim 2 they were still using those ugly, inefficient "cassette" type air conditioners slung under the dash, which date back to the early 1970s. That's just a joke in a car in that price bracket. quote] |
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Yes, Bristol did on the 411, with barely noticeable bodywork changes. That's what those two vents are for on the rear wings. There are lightly spring loaded flaps behind those. That's also why there are two wire mesh grilles in the rear parcel shelf. The holes beneath them are not, as this picture (http://www.bristolcars.info/forums/a...pictureid=233) shows, for the seat belt to pass through! End quot I guess this follows on from the first Cortina, which had vents on the C pillar. A lot of current cars have vents in the boot which exit behind the rear bumper and are therefor not visible.These have a rubber flap to act as a one-way valve. The 403 already has airflow into the boot via the rear window blind slot, but no way out from there. I would not like to cut vents into the rear wings, but the areas to the side of the boot floor, behind the rear wheel arches is a possibility. |
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(Quote: Kevin Howard)
However, rather than laziness this may have been down to economics. My guess is that the company was in terminal decline by the time Mr Silverton came along. (End Quote) I think the Bristol Fighter sends out a good signal for the future of the company under Mr Silverton's stewardship. (Quote: Kevin Howard) As for whether things like air con and electric rear windows matter, it all depends upon on how you use the car. If you keep your car under wraps in a dehumidified garage and drive it only on sunny Sundays then of course it doesn't matter and you should probably strive for originality. But if you want to use a classic car as a daily driver then a few niceties become more important. (End Quote) Don't forget, Bristol Cars regularly comment that their cars are designed for daily usage, so really these things should be standard fitment. Andrew ______________________ PREVIOUS MESSAGE FROM: Jervaulx (Quote: rubbond) On the other subjects, my goodness. Who really could care a sh*t about electric rear windows? Or am I mad? (End Quote) Basically, if you have front electric windows, you should have the rear ones electric also. It also helps older and more infirm passengers in the rear to open the window when they find it difficult to reach and open the manual mechanism. Also, in a prestige car you should open the window in a more gentlemanly manner by pressing a switch by slight of hand rather than if you were in a £7000 car. I don't agree with excuses of unreliability. When you make cars costing £150,000 and above, you find a reliable mechanism and you fit it. Excuses smacks of laziness to develop and progress and to make the car a better and more passenger friendly car. I also believe this has some truth with the lack of safety features which have been proven, overwhelmingly to save many lives. Having said that, i am a fan of the current models from Bristol and would recommend them. Andrew |
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A tip to help prevent windows steaming up which works on bathrooms mirrors.
Take a soft dry cloth, squirt washing up liquid on it and wipe over the windscreen and/or side windows. Then take another soft dry cloth and buff it off. This should stop the misting as it really does work on bathroom mirrors. Andrew |
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[quote=TLF799R;498]What is it with you boys - you claim to love the cars then all you do is run them down. If so much is wrong with them why have one???
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Fighter have a specially developed air conditioning system, designed for the car at great cost? It would have presumably been much easier, as other "supercars" do, to pinch theirs from cheap mass produced cars but Bristol didn't do that. They wanted to make their car smaller and lighter so they designed their own! How can you possibly call that lazy??? When I win the lottery I am straight off to Kensington to order my new Bristol! Lets not forget that if you have any spare pennies after forking out for your new Bristol and you don't like the dashboard, you can possibly instruct Bristol to arrange any bespoke upgrading of it. I remember seeing on these pages a Blenheim belonging to an owner that had a much better and tasteful interior upgrade utilising Rolls Royce eyeball vents and chrome switches and totally ditching the underdash chip-cutter ac. Would this upgrade have been done by Bristol or would someone else have done it?? |
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I don't quite get this.
Who needs to open rear windows anyway when you have air con? What for? To ask someone for the way because the driver himself does not speak English? Regards, Markus |
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Isn't that where the chassis came from? |
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Philippa, we were talking generally about the main model the Blenheim 3 and
not the Fighter which sets a good future for the company. As far as safety, until the cars go through Euro NCap tests then your views of the safety record is not viable. Bristol cars are rare as hens teeth and so the odds of them being in severe crashes is a lot less than a higher production model. Also, are you really saying that because some of us have made a critcism of certain models, then we should go elsewhere? Anybody who really cares about a marque will make criticsm and on this occasion, it is genuine and heart felt and not done for the sake of being nasty. Other marques face criticism from their customers and enthusiasts all the time, they listen and if there is a need they will act on it. Andrew |
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Hi Andrew,
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My view, unlike yours, is based among other things on informed comment from a Blenheim owner I met at the factory when picking up our car. He had been in a high speed 8 car motorway pile up where every other car had air bags (some as many as 7). He was the only driver who emerged unscathed. What the government tests fail to take into account is that should you be involved in a multiple impact your airbags have been and gone once the first car has hit you. You are then presumably sitting in a car designed to protect you through the air bags that doesn't then have them as car number two hits you! He walked away from the accident thanks to the strength in the Bristol chassis. Of the other people in the accident some were still in hospital 1 month later presumably collecting the insurance money from their write offs when he was collecting his repaired car from the factory. I would much rather rely on the design of a car to save me than some kind of "GCSEs for cars" created by a government who you all seem to have very little faith in the rest of the time! Quote:
Philippa |
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Philippa,
I agree that the Fighter has a unique chassis and probably may have a uniquely configured air con system , but I suspect the air con will be based around off the shelf components matched to suit the requirements of the Fighter, not bespoke down to the ECU and sub components. That would be farcical economically and something simply not worth doing. Most large scale auto manufacturers use common components configured to their specific requirements but often shared amongst several brands/marques. A classic example (not air con) is the half shaft (drive shaft) off a Porsche 928. It is more than £450 off the shelf from Porsche and is a direct swap for the same item used on a Ford Granada of the same era (price £195). All made by GKN. Similarly air-con units largely come from 3-4 global suppliers. Bosch supplies so much to the auto industry one has to ask the question, what apart from body and chassis design do the car makers actually do (lots really). Even engines and gearboxes are routinely shared these days (Borg Warner / Getrag / etc, or Alfa/Fiat/Vauxhall/Saab with diesels or even BMW Mini/Peugeot/Citroen diesels to name a few). Everything from ABS and braking systems to other sub-systems are designed and produced by third parties. Indeed it is a strength that such outsourcing of common systems is used, especially for Bristol - makes it better for us who make the time and effort to keep them going. My 406 will have a latest model Dana Spicer rear axle and modern front disc calipers, plus other nice shiny 3rd party stuff added for convenience and ease of maintenance - including a fully integrated off the shelf air con unit. As to crash worthiness it is of great importance that energy is absorbed by the structure as much as possible instead of the people inside. Rather than blame the lack of available airbags (designed to help keep moving body parts from too much acceleration and impact damage), the issue you raise about a multiple car pile up is more related to the subsequent lack of impact (energy) absorption by an already crashed car by another impact. This is a catch 22 and unfortunate. Although having said that the basic cell structure of most moderns remains pretty strong even after front and rear impact absorption. Fewer deaths occur due to high speed (30-50mph) impact than say 20-30 years ago (pro-rata). Even better still are injuries due to impact of body parts inside the car. The Bristol (V8's) has excellent rear impact absorption (relatively weak (soft) structure) attached to a solid structure and similarly same at front above chassis line and before engine. Side impact is good too as long as the impact is below knee height until it hits the inner chassis rails. In any event, the guy in the heavier object always comes off (almost always) better than the guy in the smaller one. A V8 Bristol weighs in at 1700kgs about the same as a modern BMW 5 series or smaller 7 series. |
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Philippa your comment of the guy surviving the crash is not a scientific one
and is therefore not viable as the Blenheim was not in the same posotion as all the cars involved. The official tests also show how the car deforms in a crash dissapaiting the energy and how it handles impact (modern cars deform whereas older cars didn't causing injuries to passengers) and where the pedals go for example. Recent tests also found, if a small Renault Modus was travelling at 30mph and a Mercedes E-class (W124) from the late 1980's pulled out and was hit side on, the Mercedes driver would likely be killed. Whereas if the roles were reversed, the Renault driver would walk away. Mercedes cars are known the world over for being some of the safest and toughest cars in existence. I prefer proven science on a like for like basis, rather than a guy i met happened to be ok in his car in 1 crash. Oh and most crashes aren't multiple pile ups, they are single impact. Modern crash zones are 'proven' by many reliable sources (not just government tests) to save lives, ignorance doesn't!! On the case of your argument of not needing an electric opener of the rear window. What about on days when the air con isn't needed but the passenger wants fresh air, are we to deny them because you don't see the need for it? Manual openers are a poor mans way of opening the window and an impossibility for many older generations who simply cannot reach across. Andrew |
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Regards, Markus |
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We all know the engine is a Viper engine, and presumably the transmission, but I assumed that Bristol made the chassis. However, just last week I was talking to a guy who recently visited Chrysler in Detroit. He is doing some development work on another model of car to utilise the Viper engine so he had some meetings arranged with Chrysler people. They looked after him, picked him up from his hotel, took him out for lunch and gave him a tour of the Viper production plant. These guys were very forthcoming with information until he asked if the Bristol Fighter used the Viper chassis - "No comment" was the response. Now if Bristol were not using the Viper chassis it would be very simple for the Chrysler guys to say that. But when anyone declines to comment when asked a simple yes/no question, that makes me suspicious. Why would Bristol not use the Viper chassis? It's a great chassis, well proven and successful in racing versions of the Viper. It would also have saved them a fortune in development costs. Has anyone ever seen a reasonably detailed description of the Fighter chassis? Last edited by Kevin H; 06-11-08 at 07:36 AM. Reason: typo |
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Last edited by browning l; 06-11-08 at 01:55 PM. |
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