410 Brake Upgrade

[Roger Morrall]

Some further thoughts:

I fear I cannot definitively confirm the pads I was using as my records stayed with the car but they were as fitted by both BCS and SLJ.

My issue was always with very long descents coupled with the lack of engine braking. Garmin reported that we had risen and fallen more than 26 miles on the Alpine trip, Le Havre to Le Havre.

I don’t believe that my car differed from the norm - I could only get engine braking in 1st and it would only actually drop into first at about 6 mph, which tended to hold up the traffic.

I always found the brakes brilliant in every other circumstance. They were heavy compared to modern practise but in that pre ABS era designers had to balance out the risk of lock up and resultant lack of control and the only way they could achieve that was to make sure you had to push down very hard before the brakes would lock. A design balance that was taken to extremes in the Morris Minor which will actually stop on a sixpence without locking its brakes provided sheer panic provides sufficient impetus to your right foot!

Here’s a picture I took from the top of the Stelvio for you. I forced the poor old lady up but found a rather gentler way down!

[AndrewA]

Thanks for the further thoughts and reminiscences of the dreaded Stelvio!
Have done it once in a modern and that was enough - a BMW X5 - relying on the gears towards the end to slow it down.
Back on the benchmark thing DavidC of this parish, has kindly suggested that I hold onto my £'s for a short time while his 410 completes the next stage of its rebirth.
By then it will have the correct original rebuilt servos and rest of braking system in fine fettle, so I should be able to see what it was like when "new".
My car is a also on slightly wider wheels and I've often wondered (see my wanted ad) what it'd be like on the wheels it was designed for.
So plan is to meet up, try each others cars, swap wheels around and so on.
I imagine there might be some comparative acceleration tests as well.....
Will keep you posted.

[David C]

It just occurred to me that I should have asked sooner which brake pads you have fitted. If they are a slightly harder compound they will need a push or two to wake them up. When I first drove my 403 with 406 brakes it was hopeless until they had warmed up as someone had fitted far too hard a compound. When I asked about what different grades were available I was told that towards the end of production of Dunlop Disc brakes the remaining stock was sold to Thwaites Benford for their dumper trucks. Apparently during construction of the M40 quite a few of these suppered serious fade and a few took serious tumbles. The solution was to have rings of solid copper in the brake pads!

I tried a few different manufacturers and settled on Lockheed as having the best temperature range. I think they are sold as Delphi today.

[AndrewA]

Well...for a variety of reasons (impatience mostly) I decided to press ahead. The coopercraft kit was a bit more expensive than sending the calipers off for a refurb but not in the price range of some other options - also it was marketed as a straightforward bolt on arrangement - which it was - ish.
The only challenge I had was the wheels wouldn't fit! Turns out I'm running 411 Series 2 wheels but on 410 hubs. The spare, which is the original 410 wheel fitted perfectly. So SLJ kindly supplied 4 410 wheels which are now freshly powder coated, and on the car.
First impressions....brakes very good, excellent feel and bite - have yet to try repeated hard braking from silly speeds to see if I can fade them but I'll let them bed in first. I also prefer the look of the car on the original rims and it has lightened up the steering and increased the steering feel noticeably.

[dwomby]

Originally Posted by AndrewA

>
>
the car on the original rims and it has lightened up the steering and increased the steering feel noticeably.

Interesting. What tyres, Andrew?

David

[AndrewA]

I was on Dunlop SP Sport Aquajet 185/80R15 91V all round but discovered one of the rears had developed an interesting bulge so needed to replace. These particular tyres are difficult to come by at the moment - apparently - so am now on Dunlop Sport Classic 185/80VR15 93W at the rear and Aquajets at the front.

[Roger Morrall]

Tyre contact area can make a surprising difference to steering weight.

I run an eclectic Morris Minor van that came, 30 years ago, with saloon rims and Jaguar Mk 2 seats. The latter had necessitated a sporty 13 inch steering wheel and skinny thighs. I relatively recently ditched the rusting saloon wheels in favour of the slightly wider van/pickup rims, retaining the same tyres. The very slight increase in contact area made a massive difference to slow speed manoeuvrability, basically there now isn’t any. At higher speeds, and it’s capable of a surprising turn of speed, it’s still just like riding a bike and it will out corner many modern cars

By the way 411 wheels (if you can fit them) do permit the use of modern asymmetric tyres designed for the SUV market. Tyre design has come a very long way in terms of reduction in tyre noise and tracking.