412 virtues

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by TBC

I have to say that the usual expectation of a car manufacturer is that the new product should build upon the qualities of its predecessor. As such I fail to see why the 412 wouldn't handle better than the 411.

The point is Keith, beneath the skin the 412 is NOT different to the later 411's. The 411 S5 is not a predecessor to the 412. They were made at the same time and have the same, engine, transmission, suspension, wheels, tyres, diff and chassis, save for perhaps a couple of plates or box sections welded onto the chassis (to make up for the missing roof).

Only with the 412 S2 did things start to change.

I have yet to hear any rational argument as to why the 412 would handle better than the contemporary series 5 of the 411.

I concede that the 412 S2 may handle better than a *standard* 411 S5. Setright would only say "it is said to handle better", even though he himself had tested the 412 S2 for an article in an American car magazine.

I can see why the Beaufighter should handle better than a 411, because it is quite different to the original 412 (different engine, transmission, wheels, tyres and considerable chassis reinforcement). No doubt that's why Bristol gave it different name, because it was a different car.

[TLF799R]

Ah, here we get to the knub of the matter - it is just my poor series 1 that is inferior!!!!

LOL

Philippa

Originally Posted by Kevin Howard

The point is Keith, beneath the skin the 412 is NOT different to the later 411's. The 411 S5 is not a predecessor to the 412. They were made at the same time and have the same, engine, transmission, suspension, wheels, tyres, diff and chassis, save for perhaps a couple of plates or box sections welded onto the chassis (to make up for the missing roof).

Only with the 412 S2 did things start to change.

I have yet to hear any rational argument as to why the 412 would handle better than the contemporary series 5 of the 411.

I concede that the 412 S2 may handle better than a *standard* 411 S5. Setright would only say "it is said to handle better", even though he himself had tested the 412 S2 for an article in an American car magazine.

I can see why the Beaufighter should handle better than a 411, because it is quite different to the original 412 (different engine, transmission, wheels, tyres and considerable chassis reinforcement). No doubt that's why Bristol gave it different name, because it was a different car.

[Rubbond]

Regardless of all of the technical details.
I am surprised that especially Bristol owners should have lost grasp of the
english language!
It should of course be : similar to, comparable with, and different from.
Not hard to remember, but it would make reading your e-mails much easier!
With best regards,
Andrew Knox.

[Jervaulx]

I think it's also worthwhile remembering that, other people may not have
been as well educated as yourself and deserve to be treated just the same as
everybody else. Petty comments which remind me of telling naughty school
children they have done wrong, is just plain ignorant.

Andrew

[Rubbond]

Ouch! No offense intended, but I do think this is important for the future
of the english language. The BBC can't even get it right!
And as for plain ignorance, no, I don't think so.
I certainly don't want to continue this discussion further, so let's leave
it at this.
I just wanted to correct the grammer, which I found a little irritating..
And yes, I do think this is important!
Am I wrong in thinking this?
Andrew Knox.

[Peter Grace]

There's a very good story in yesterday's Financial Times Weekend, harking back to CP Snow's comments in the late 40s on the 'two cultures' - the literary intellectual and the scientist - and how little they understood each other's ground breaking discoveries. Snow more or less said that a scientist that didn't understand the Joyce was bad, but a critic that didn't understand quantum theory was even worse. Should the divide grow to great, Snow argued, where one side didn't understand 'the finer things' and the other 'how things worked', it would result not just in two clashing cultures, but perhaps the downfall of western civilisation as we know it. Stirring stuff.

Andrew's comments about grammar may seem pedantic, but after all, this is a forum of pedants, and none moreso than Kevin, Our Glorious Founder, who has got into trouble with this kind of tenacious bone-chewing before.

I have to say I enjoy it. Bristol owners are supposed to be eccentric, heretical and hole-picking. I am disappointed when they are not.

In the old days, Hugo used to cheer us all up with his anti-EU rants. The counter-culturalists, who were only interested in 'how things work' chased him away. Or maybe he was taken away. We never really learned the answer.

Andrew's pedantry is welcome. So is Paul's and so is Kevin's. I would like to think this is a forum of 'Bristol culture', which includes not only your musings on the Bristol you are restoring, but also those times when, glancing up from your great project, you stare out the dusty windows of your garage, and see fairies dancing at the bottom of the garden.

The trouble with the old BOC forum, as I understood it, was they didn't like dissent or heresy.

P

PS. Grammer, or grammar?

[Jervaulx]

That's fine Andrew, I was just worried if anybody with grammer issues which
I am sure I do, will feel pressured to the point that they stop posting.

I'm glad you have also noticed that the BBC are poor. The BBC website has
appalling grammar to such a degree, some stories don't actually make sense.
Proof reading and good research would help in their case. They have even
just won an award for best website LOL.

Regards

Andrew

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by TLF799R

Ah, here we get to the knub of the matter - it is just my poor series 1 that is inferior!!!!

LOL
Philippa

Not inferior Phillippa, just not better

Originally Posted by rubbond

Regardless of all of the technical details.
I am surprised that especially Bristol owners should have lost grasp of the
english language!
It should of course be : similar to, comparable with, and different from.
Not hard to remember, but it would make reading your e-mails much easier!
With best regards,
Andrew Knox.

I believe 'english' should be 'English', with a capital E!

To the many Bristol owners out there who are not in fact English, and for whom English is a second language, please be assured that the rest of us will not criticise you for imperfect grammar or spelling and we welcome your posts on this site.

Kevin

[Rubbond]

Clearly I upset a few people with my comment on the correct use of
prepositions in the English language.
My apologies also for miss-spelling the word "grammar". Ouch!
For those who still might be interested, the prepositions "to", "with" and
"from" are governed by the original latin prefix of the modern english verb.
So, it's "commensurate with", etc.. "Compared to" and "different to" make
the hairs on my back stand on end!
I didn't mean to insult anyone - especially from outside the UK - I just
think it a pity that the roots of the English language, after about 15
centuries of Roman influence, are now being destroyed.
With best regards,
Andrew.

[Rubbond]

Dear Kevin,
You are absolutely correct and my apologies in general.
In my last mail I wrote "Roman" with a capital letter, and also apologised
to all those not native to the UK.
In retrospect it was a foolish message but even as an engineer (capital
letter, or not?), I am nevertheless very concerned about where the english
language is going. It's like well bad.
Andrew.

[Kevin H]

Andrew, I don't think you have really upset or insulted anyone, but we might upset a few people if we keep banging on about it in this thread about the Bristol 412

Therefore, I have copied your last post into a new thread in the 'Other Topics of Interest' forum here http://www.bristolcars.info/forums/showthread.php?t=228

[TLF799R]

Kevin,
U r quite rite 2 move this 2 a place different to the 412 stuf m8. Its much
2 highbrow compared to us 412 folk. LOL

Philippa

[Rubbond]

That's very sweet of you Philippa, and Kevin too.
I'm actually an engineer but will refrain from getting involved on the C of
G stuff. That is too highbrow for me and I would probably embarrass myself
further.
Anyway, we shouldn't be driving that fast.
Is LOL by the way lots of laughs, or lots of love?
Either way (Pronounced I-the-way of course, not e-the-way), my best regards,
Andrew.