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8 & 10 cyl Bristol cars Type 407 onwards - restoration, repair, maintenance etc

410 wheels

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Old 26-07-14, 08:58 AM
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Default 410 wheels

Hello,
Does anyone know if the wheels fitted to the 410 were common to any other car please. There is a photo of a 410 with whaty looks like the Jaguar XJ pepper pot wheels, so are they the same PCD I wonder?
Thanks
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Old 26-07-14, 09:33 AM
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MYTA21 ,
the 400 - 409 wheels have a PCD of 112mm (same as M Benz)
410 onward have a PCD of 4.75 inch (same as Jaguar XJ6 and probably other Jag). I fitted XJ6 series 1 wheels to my 411 S1 at one time .

Geoff
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Old 26-07-14, 04:23 PM
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A good web site for PCD checking and some other stuff !

Automotive resources from carlsalter.com, Wheel rim PCDs and fitments, Free Motorcycle Service and Workshop Manuals for Download

There is also a BMW wheel at 120 mm PCD and looks similar to 411 S6 ! ( same as Bristol 410 to Blenheim and XJ Jag )

The 410 wheel is narrower than the 411 onwards -- although the 411 S1 maybe the same ?

I have new wheel nuts and studs for Bristol's -- only other car I found that uses same size is Land Rover S1 !! And no, they don't fit a Bristol :-)

I once fitted my Merc 112 PCD wheels to a 401 -- you needed arms like my wife's to steer it !! :-))
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Old 26-07-14, 04:31 PM
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Another way of achieving more available tyre choice is to have the steel wheels banded -- obviously be sure to go to an experienced reputable company for this that does an accurate quality job -- not the local grass tracker builders :-))

Nothing against grass tracking as I used to do lots of it , but we didn't expect cars to live long !
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Old 26-07-14, 10:16 PM
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Greg,
The M Benz in the 90's were mostly 6 in x 15in but had different offset between the different models .
Each wheel is stamped with the offset near the stud holes.
ET 31 fitted C180/220/280
ET 49 190E
ET 40 w124 220/280 1994 onwards

I understand the ET 31 are the best fit on a 401/3 but best to try before you buy , check clearance of the tyres with the wheel arch on full lock .
Also check clearance of the steering knuckle to the rim on full lock .

If you make and fit a few hubcap fixing pins the wheels with hubcaps look very similar to the Standard 4.5 x 16 Bristol wheels ,
maybe at parking speed it will be heavier than original .
The other consideration is the overall diameter of the 15 in tyre will be smaller than original

There is now a good selection of 185 x 16 tyres available now , especially in UK , why bother fitting 15 inch wheels

Geoff
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Old 26-07-14, 10:34 PM
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I only discovered by chance that my old Merc 320 CDI ( W210 ) with 16 " alloy wheels fit the Bristol -- However the spare was steel and looked just like a Bristol wheel

So a 2001 onwards E class full size spare or even some standard Audi steel wheels

I wouldn't consider fitting 15 " to a 6 cylinder.. -- I even prefer the look of the V8's with 16"

They sell the hub cap pins on eBay for VW Beetles that would work.
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Old 27-07-14, 09:54 AM
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A more elegant solution than banding is putting an existing (steel) wheel centre into a new outer rim - to choose ideal width and offset. Also possible to go up or down in diameter (e.g. change a 15" into a 16").
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Old 27-07-14, 11:12 PM
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I think we over did the answer :-))

It should have been the 410 wheel wasn't used on any other car and yes they are the same PCD as the contemporary Jag ! Oop's

But maybe someone found the rest of the rambling useful -- hopefully...
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Old 28-07-14, 10:48 PM
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Reasons for possible changing wheel sizes are that whilst 16inch tyres are easy to get in UK, ( Vintage Tyres Supplies highly recommended), in South Australia, the nearest source is 500 miles away. Having had a string of punctures, I was carrying a new tyre, as well as a spare. Ended up using the spare new tyre when blowout occurred. Travelling without spare for long distances is a worry!
Also, if I get the electric power steering fitted, as I hope to soon, I can use a wider section which is more readily available in 15 inch here. There are web sites with all tyre diameter, so as to find a 15 inch diameter very close to a 16inch etc.

I tried an 80's XJ6 wheel and the PCD is bigger than the 409, as a later post stated. Parts book show 409 and 410 hubs different. 409 is more like 115PCD from a rough measurement.

Philip's suggestion of banding looks possibly the best way - keeps the car looking original.The historic rego scheme here stipulates that the car must be kept original, so that is another thing to consider.

Thanks for all the information
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Old 29-07-14, 07:48 AM
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407 6003 Stafford June 2013.jpg


Mike ,
Why stuff a good set of original wheels by banding them .

The M Benz wheels will bolt on without any modification to a 409 , attached is a poor quality photo of a 407 with the MBenz wheels 15 x 6 inch

Have you now decided not the sell the 409 ??
Regards
Geoff
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Old 29-07-14, 08:36 AM
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409 with Audi 16" steel wheels -- Merc 16" steel are closer looking to the originals
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Old 29-07-14, 10:47 AM
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They're also Mercedes wheels: http://www.bristolcars.info/forums/8...-my-409-a.html
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Old 29-07-14, 11:22 AM
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Actually it looks like the Audi and the Merc wheel are probably the same

16" set of 4 STEEL WHEELS/WINTER TYRES.205/55/16 DUNLOP.AUDI,SEAT,SKODA,VW | eBay
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Old 29-07-14, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Dowdle View Post
MYTA21 ,
the 400 - 409 wheels have a PCD of 112mm (same as M Benz)
410 onward have a PCD of 4.75 inch (same as Jaguar XJ6 and probably other Jag). I fitted XJ6 series 1 wheels to my 411 S1 at one time .

Geoff
I thought the 411 s2 onwards had wider wheels? 185 section on 410/411 s1, 205 on 411 s2 onwards. I've always been under the impression that later 411 wheels, or Jaguar wheels, won't fit a 410 without changing the hubs.
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Old 29-07-14, 10:17 PM
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Yep, the 411 S2 onward has wider wheels but they all fit the 410 -- maybe a small shim spacer ( 3mm) needed on the front hubs if they foul on full lock.

I have a stock of spacers to bring the rear wheels out to the arches with the Bristol stud thread and new nuts if anyone wants them -- looks a lot better and better motorway ride , especially on a 412 / 603 where the wheels look too far in.
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Old 30-07-14, 12:48 AM
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Here's a 410 with Jag pepperpot wheels ! I think they look okay ?
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Old 30-07-14, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GREG View Post
Here's a 410 with Jag pepperpot wheels ! I think they look okay ?
I think they look like they're from a different era than the car.
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Old 30-07-14, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GREG View Post
Yep, the 411 S2 onward has wider wheels but they all fit the 410
Greg, are you sure the wider 411 wheels fit in the wheel arches at the rear of the 410? (particularly the Avon Safety wheels)

I suppose it does depend on what tires they are shod with.
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Old 31-07-14, 11:18 PM
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Avon safety wheels are the same size as the Jag pepper-pot wheels shown on the previous picture on a 410 -- I'm not saying they go straight on without issues , but inexpensive spacers will get them to fit if they don't.

Personally on the 407 to 411 S2 I prefer the look of original steel wheels, although I would go with wider steel wheels.
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Old 16-09-14, 01:10 PM
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I have also been looking at alternatives for the steel wheels for the 410. One option are alloy replicas of the steel wheels which SHOULD allow for both the fitment of Bristol's 'big brakes' and the original hubcaps.

I am not sure that will be possible and am still waiting to get wheel info from Bristol (the PCD is known, but I need the offset 'ET', the rim width and rim lip type). If anyone has the newer alloys in 15" or 16", that info should be stamped inside the wheel (need to take wheel out unless you have a spare alloy).

Here are some pictures (click to enlarge):

Ccapfullceramic2.jpg

Cnocapbrushedpolisherim.jpg
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