603 - electric windows

[douglas j]

I had no end of trouble with the windows, there is a cut off switch in the door which I came upon, this may be the problem. The switch stops the window when it reaches the top and it may have cut off the supply completely. If the switch on the doors are faulty you can use a universal rocker switch which looks almost identical and are readily available. Quite a bizarre way of wiring but probably typical.

[Peter Hoskin]

Thanks for all the responses.
Wiring diagram - drawing B680039 shown on the resources website quoted by Kevin is the one I am using. It agrees with the one in the handbook including colour coding.
Switches: I swapped the drivers window switch with the passenger's side window switch. Neither worked their respective windows. I swapped back and restored use of the drivers window. Conclusion-the passenger switch at fault but also a further fault in the circuitry.
Stripped the passenger switch- I rebuilt one several months back and this one seemed different. In this switch one of the floating copper bars is firmly rivetted to the connector at one end. I seem to remember on the previous rebuild these 2 copper strips were both floating? I cleaned contacts and re-assembled re-installed and did not work. Without any particular reason I connected the firmly rivetted end to BR at the 'down' end?
Micro switches- there are no micro switches, there function appears to be replaced by the circuit breakers which would appear to be current overloads that auto. reset? Neither showed an open circuit so I assume are serviceable?
Thumbnail of switch circuits- I will study these more closely and could find I have connected the passenger switch incorrectly.
more research necessary, it looks as if we will be attending the BOCA Rally in Victoria from 27 March without an openable passenger window!

[Kevin H]

It's 20 years since I did some work on my 411 windows, but I recall that both passenger and driver side switches had to be connected, not sure if they were interchangeable. I do recall removing mine from the armrest and reconnecting them with the door trims removed.

I can't remember whether one of my windows didn't operate or whether it was painfully slow, but I know I rewired them with good quailty heavy duty wire and replaced all the bullet connectors. This made a significant difference.

Peter, have you had a voltmeter on the motor terminals while you operate the switch? I'm just wondering if the issue is insufficient current.

Also, re the circuit breakers - you said they were not open circuit, but was this with power on them and the switch operating? If they are current sensing circuit breakers (which is likely) and the motor is trying to draw too much current, the circuit could be broken momentarily whenever you try to operate the passenger window. You could perhaps try bypassing the circuit breaker with a peice of wire with an inline fuse of a suitable value (20-30A?)

[Peter Hoskin]

Thank you Kevin, I will follow up your suggestions when I return from our forthcoming Rally. I have not time to conduct major work at present. I tested both passenger switches when in the idle position and in each case I found each terminal on both switches had 12+ volts!
I am expecting new switches and circuit breakers from Graeme Payne in the neartime so will be in a better position to conduct further testing.

[David C]

If you take a look at my sketch below you will see that +12V on all connections is very nearly what you need. It is only the top right connection on the left hand switch in the sketch that provides earth and causes current to flow.

[David C]

If you have +12 volts supplied from the driver's side switch then the circuit for the passenger switch can be simplified as in the attached diagram.

The best tool for fault finding will be a 12V bulb that draws a few amps of current. A digital multimeter may give misleading readings as it won't put any load on the circuit.

[Peter Hoskin]

Sorry for the break in communications, we had a successful BOCA Rally in the Victorian Alps followed by a couple of days in the Snowys.
I received and fitted to the passenger door a new switch, it did not work but did restore to working the drivers switch! progress!
Circuit breakers-in request for replacements I received cut off switches which have a 411 no. but of no use to me but following Kevin' s comments I applied brain and realised my logic was wrong. I assumed that an overcurrent sent the circuit to earth whereas it breaks the circuit to earth. Makes sense.
I attach a sketch of the connections on the new and old switches. The new switch corresponds to the connections shown on David's sketch except my Up and Down appear reversed. I have shown the connections with colour codes, the wiring diagram does not show which is the UP or DOWN end of the switch - can anyone enlighten me? I assumed the BY wire goes to the DOWN end of the Passenger switch?