*Moved - Alternative (green) Engines

[406Special]

Andrew,

If you are able to find a Mercedes 320CDI or 420CDI or even a VW 5.0
V10 diesel running and stand alongside them, they do not sound like
tractors or even lorries. I have heard a 335d BMW at 5 paces and it
is definitely louder than say a 330i petrol motor, but nothing
obtrusive and no clackety clack. With throtlle opened they sound
very similar to a rumbling V8 with more torque and thrust. The
latest technology has them running smoother and cleaner than engines
of even 10 years ago. If fuel consumption or CO2 wasn't an issue,
then a lovely supercharged V8 or V6 from any of the Germans would do
the trick. As far as particulate emissions are concerned recent
exhaust technology and cleanup methods inline behind the exhaust
certainly sorts out diesels. Note Alfa/Fiat do this sort of thing as
do Citroen/Peugeot/Ford/Jag/Land Rover and the German trio (EU
requirements). Basically burns the output to become null and void.
I am not a diesel aficionado, but for relaxed torquey pulling power
at reasonable economy it works.

My 406 engine is still being put together, but it will produce around
300+ bhp and more than 320 lbsft between 2500-5500 rpm with about 75%
of its torque available from 1800-2200 rpm. It is a 2.5 litre turbo
inter-cooled 4 cylinder 8 valve petrol motor. Due to its similar
weight to the original Bristol 6 the power to weight ratio will be
greater than 220 bhp per metric tonne, which is pretty darn god. For
comparison, a 411 S3 has about 197 bhp per metric tonne, assuming the
claims for the 383ci V8 producing 335 bhp. I reckon it was closer to
275 bhp in actual fact (mine was no more than 310 with a large 4
barrel Holley and decent exhausts - dyno checked). So my lighter 2.5
litre engine should get a lot more nimble performance than a 6.3
litre Chrysler V8. But then if I wanted an automatic with long legs
and good economy (my 2.5 litre should get mid to late 20's mpg) I
would plump for a diesel like a 320CDI motor or if one was available
a stonking 5.0 litre V10 from VW, although I do like Range Rover's
3.6 litre V8 diesel - nice and compact.

Clyde

[Markus Berzborn]

Originally Posted by 406Special

If fuel consumption or CO2 wasn't an issue,
then a lovely supercharged V8 or V6 from any of the Germans would do
the trick.

I think this should not be an issue for a car costing 200,000+.

Will someone who is able to spend sums like that on a car really be very interested in fuel consumption?

And there are quite a lot of interesting engines around at the moment, just look at the 6 litre 12-cyl motors of Aston Martin, Mercedes, Bentley (i.e. VW), BMW (incl. Rolls-Royce). So I don't really see a scarcity of appropriate engines if Chrysler should stop production.

As for CO2, I personally don't believe in CO2 induced climate change at all. But that's another question.

Regards,
Markus

[seanmcs]

Was waiting for that. Thanks, Clyde.

Sean

[Kevin H]

I think we've had this discussion in the past. But it's all a bit of a moot point unless we get to the stage where Bristol can no longer get Chrysler engines. Even if Chrysler does close it's doors Bristol may get the chance to buy up enough stock of 360 engines to keep it going for several years, probably at bargain prices.

I'm fairly sure this was done in the past (Bristol having a stock of engines) because the engine in my '76 411 S5 was built in 1973.

PS. This thread has been moved as it was started in the wrong forum.

[Bellerophon]

I think that nobody is looking at engines from a business aspect, the reason
the American V8's are used is that it is a simple powerful engine at Rock
Bottom Price. If you change this for a modern multi-cylinder engine from Europe
the price for the car would shoot though the roof. So with cars taking 2000
hours to build plus the difference in cost of a new engine and gearbox, it
would put the car into a whole new price group, so may be best to stick to an
established formulae especially as there may a few V8 engines on the market at
knock down prices.
My regards,
Bellerophon

[Markus Berzborn]

Originally Posted by Bellerophon

If you change this for a modern multi-cylinder engine from Europe the price for the car would shoot though the roof.

I don't think so. Just have a look at how much Mercedes or BMW ask for a replacement engine for their V12 cars.
And whether a Bristol costs 200,000 or 210,000 or 220,000 - do you really think this makes a big difference for the target customer?

Regards,
Markus

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by Markus Berzborn

I don't think so. Just have a look at how much Mercedes or BMW ask for a replacement engine for their V12 cars.
And whether a Bristol costs 200,000 or 210,000 or 220,000 - do you really think this makes a big difference for the target customer?

Which Bristol cars are we talking about here? I thought the original post was about finding an alternative to the Chrysler V8 and the V8 engined Bristols don't cost £200,000, although granted, they're in a price bracket where an extra £10-£20k probably still won't make much difference.

However, there are other things to consider for Bristol, even if they can still make the same margin on a new Blenheim sale. These modern BMW and Merc engines are extremely sophisticated, requiring specialist tools and equipment to diagnose, repair and service. Then there's the different (and very expensive) parts inventory and staff training. Last but not least, if you had a Bristol with a modern BMW or Merc engine in it, where would you take it for servicing? probably your nearest BMW or Merc dealership!