Advice opinions please

[dwomby]

Originally Posted by AndrewA

Did car run around New Forest yesterday (treasure hunt/tulip diagram type thing). Great test of cooling system as covered 80 miles in six hours driving!
It was a warm day (by UK standards) but no issues whatsoever.

Great to hear and looking good in those photos!

David

[Roger Morrall]

Thomas

I feel I must defend my corner in that I know what I told you re A/H track rod ends is absolutely correct for the 408s, 409s and 410s. Given the proviso re the later A/H 3000’s.

Tracking was very straightforward on the earlier cars given the combination of LH and RH threads on the centre rod. Your comments re your difficulties indicate that something changed from earlier Bristol practise, perhaps they just ran out of L/H threaded T/E’s.

I note your comments re a difference between the inner two and outer four T/E’s. I also note that Amsteer list a different T/E for the 411. This might suggest that Bristols went for a bigger T/E on the inner rod on the later cars and continued to use the A/H T/E’s on the outers. Note that this means that the drop arms would also differ in this detail from those on the earlier cars

My memory continues to say very firmly that the track rods on the 408s to 410s carried Whitworth threads and the lock nuts also required a Whit spanner, but I have no way of actually double checking that so I could be mistaken. So forgive me if this is a red herring but it might just be worth your checking that the rod end of any track rod end does actually meet your requirements before you order.

Can I suggest that the best person to consult re your Series 5 might be Brian Marelli, the fount of all knowledge, who is I think now to be found at Coleman Classic Cars on +44 (0) 20 3987 3812

Hope that this is some help

Roger

[DODD]

I am getting a little confused, which isn’t difficult!
My 410 has three track rods, one on the left hand side, one on the right hand side and one central.

The left and right hand side track rods need adjusting independently, which is quite difficult and time consuming if all 4 TRE’s have a left hand thread. Each side needs to be aligned. To carry out the adjustments one end of the track rod is removed from say the hub and turned inwards or outwards on the rod as needed. Once both side are set to the correct line the central track rod is then adjusted to achieve the correct toe in or toe out. The central rod does not adjust the tracking. How much easier it is with 2LH and 2RH on the track rods.

[Roger Morrall]

Originally Posted by DODD

I am getting a little confused, which isn’t difficult!.

So am I! I don’t understand what you are trying to adjust on the outer track rods, they only (I say only, but they are of course vital to the whole scheme of things) connect the steering arm on the hubs to the drop arms. They affect no element of the steering geometry. They don’t need adjusting, they just need doing up tight and leaving well alone until such time as a track rod end needs to be changed and that’s the only time they ever need to be touched. "Adjusting" them would affect toe in / toe out of course but would be extremely tedious and that’s not what they’re there for. Since they affect no element of steering geometry in themselves - leave them well alone.

One of the drop arms is connected to the steering box, the other to an idler box. The two drop arms are connected to each other by the central track rod which carries a left hand thread at one end and a right hand thread at the other. Toe in/out is readily adjusted by loosening off the lock nuts and rotating the central rod one way or the other.

Can I refer you to the relevant page of the 410 spares handbook on this forum Resources - Bristol Cars - Owners and Enthusiasts Forum which illustrates the various parts I’m referring to

If by "tracking" you mean you are seeking to get the steering wheel to match the actual straight ahead position of the wheels this is very readily achieved, after having set the toe in, by taking a careful note of the position of the s/wheel when the car is tracking straight (which is much easiest done on a short test run on the road) and then relocating the steering wheel appropriately on its splines. This is dead simple when you know how, let me know if any further advice is required.

Hope this is some help and that I don’t sound too bossy.



Roger

[Thomas591]

Hi Roger,

I totally agree to what you wrote, but I think you referring to an fully operational system which is nicely and properly adjusted.

In my case, I can’t leave my steering system “well alone” because out of 6 track rod ends 3 are worn out, one has been replaced by a previous owner with a non correct TRE, one track rod is damaged by severe mishandling and the left track rod is adjusted to be about 20mm shorter than the right track rod.

You can see from the above that, while renewing the complete system, it will help me to set up the track, to have conventional lh/rh threaded TRE’s.

Regards

Thomas

[DODD]

Hi Roger,

I think we may be talking at cross purposes here.

The outer track rods do affect the steering geometry. They can’t just be taken out of the box and fitted in the hope the central track rod will do all the necessary adjustments. Otherwise why have adjustable outer track rods.

I maintain that on a Bristol with 4No. LH threaded TRE’s the near side and off side wheels have to be aligned first, the outer track rods are then adjusted and fitted accordingly. Once aligned, fitted and secured, the central rod is adjusted to provide the tracking i.e toe in or out.

Tracking on cars do go out of alignment for many reasons, often one of the early signs as you know is excessive wear on the inner or outer edge of the front tyres. To correct the problem the wheel alignment must be checked before the central track rod is adjusted again.


Where a car has what in my mind is a more conventional system, where the two outer track rods have a LH and RH thread. The alignment and tracking (toe in or out) is done in the same procedure.
This system also negates the need for an adjustable central track rod. On many cars the central rod is a fixed length and not adjustable.

The steering wheel position has nothing to do with what I am saying above but when you have your car tracked the mechanic will position the steering wheel “straight” and clamp it in position while carrying the adjustments to the tracking.

Finally, I don’t think you are being too bossy, we just don’t agree and yes I would like some further advice please albeit on a different subject, I have set my question on a new thread for simplicity.

Brian

[AndrewA]

Not doing much on the car front as tied up with house building and moving. That said, a recent highlight was when Sam Frost popped down to pick up rear screen I was selling. He brought his 410 and we took the opportunity to drive each other's cars which was fascinating as well as good fun. It was a very hot day (by UK standards anyway) and the most immediate and wonderful difference with Sam's car is the fully functional, factory fitted aircon - that's now on my shopping list!
Picture below is a bit like one of those "spot the difference" puzzles....mine's the early one on the right, still sporting its upside-down moustache under the grille.