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8 & 10 cyl Bristol cars From Type 407 onwards

411 air conditioning

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Old 26-03-20, 12:49 AM
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Default 411 air conditioning

Need advice please on where and how to install an air conditioning compressor on my 411. The normal place for Chrysler products is the centre of the V at the top of the engine. Adapter kits are readily available to suit a variety of compressors but this system does not fit because the alternator brackets are in the way.
Chrysler mount the alternator above the fuel pump which would clear the way but the original alternator would foul the power steering and unless I can find a very compact alternator this will not work. Any advice would be much appreciated.
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Old 26-03-20, 01:12 AM
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Peter
Hopefully someone will come up with a photograph of the original installation, I removed the compressor on my 411 years ago as it was seized up, it was a York unit if I remember correctly and what I do remember was that it was located to the left of the V of the engine if viewed from the front.
I am sure their would be better options available today than this unit.
Geoff.
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Old 27-03-20, 11:06 PM
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Herewith some engine bays from some cars that might just help!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Engine 1.jpg (563.8 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg Engine2.jpg (228.1 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg Engine3.jpg (422.1 KB, 10 views)
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Old 28-03-20, 12:24 AM
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Third from left photo shows a different and neater solution to the set up that was on my 411. On My car the compressor sat in the position of the alternator in that photograph. One of the things to bear in mind on trying to set this up is that all sorts of mounting brackets and drive belts were used over the years and it would be better to try and find a solution that worked in period for Chrysler rather than what Bristol did originally, I may be wrong but I doubt any US car had the same AC compressor fitted that Bristol used.
A trip to a breaker dealing in older US cars may pay dividends and ordering what you need directly from the states could save you quite a bit of money now Bristol Cars are no longer around to help.
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Old 28-03-20, 11:48 AM
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Thank you Xseries unfortunately the photo to the right is a 411 but is fitted
with a later smaller block motor. The middle photo I am not sure what motor it is, note the dip stick is not in the correct place for a 383. The left photo gives some small idea as to where it is mounted.The choice of compressors isnt easy as most modern compact units would be ideal but come with the wrong pully. The best I have found so far is off an Early Toyota Hi Lux. This could easily be mounted near the alternator and move the alternator to a position near the fuel pump but so far I havnt found one small enough to fit.
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Old 28-03-20, 11:51 AM
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Geoff if your compressor was mounted where the alternator is shown where was your alternator moved too?
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Old 28-03-20, 12:19 PM
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Peter,
It is on the right hand side of the engine viewed from the front with the power steering pump below it.
Geoff.

Last edited by Geoff Kingston; Yesterday at 07:27 PM.
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Old 28-03-20, 01:47 PM
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Here are some photos from Geoff Kingston ...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1040921.JPG (189.2 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg P1040920.JPG (184.2 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg P1040864.JPG (201.2 KB, 7 views)
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Old 28-03-20, 04:56 PM
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The two photographs with a compressor in place are actually of my 603E with the 5.2 engine, the other photograph is of the 411 showing the position of the alternator almost directly above the power steering pump.
There would also have been a pump on the engine for the self levelling but that had been removed before I bought the car.
Geoff.
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Old Yesterday, 05:06 AM
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Here are some pictures of the first AC installation on my 411. The (Denso) compressor is where the alternator was originally and the alternator has been moved to the where the self leveling pump was.


As you can see the condenser was in front of the radiator. The AC worked well, but the engine ran very hot (to hot) on warm days, this was alleviated a little by installing a large electric fan on the back of the radiator, to pull air through, but the engine cooling was still marginal.


Unfortunately the original two electric fans mounted in a cowling in front of the radiator was not a very effective setup.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Initial AC install 1.jpg (433.4 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg Initial AC install 2.jpg (385.7 KB, 4 views)
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Old Yesterday, 05:33 AM
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This is the second AC installation on my 411. An original Chrysler compressor was used (as per the Jensen Interceptor I believe - not sure who actually made the compressor) along with a multi-rib belt setup. The water cooling and radiator configuration has been changed completely (I'll cover that in a later post). The engine cooling works well, but the old design of compressor is not very effective. I asked Vintage Air about this and they said the old compressors used by Chrysler are significantly inferior to the Denso compressor.
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File Type: jpg 411-engine-004.jpg (207.3 KB, 5 views)
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Old Yesterday, 07:40 AM
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Thank you all for your efforts unfortunately no one in the UK seem to worry about air conditioning . The 603 installation of course is with the next generation motor (completely different). Then along came Kevin. How can I thank you enough. Your second installation is very interesting. The new radiator hose must mean a new radiator. The compressor I have not seen its most unusual.The heater hoses have been re positioned. How do you get to the distributor ? I note you require a new pulley or two as your running 3 belts.

The thing I am amazed at is its still possible despite the power steering box to mount an original alternator on the drivers side of the motor , I felt this could not be done.

My current thoughts to use the latest Vintage Compressor which mounts as per standard Chrysler and mount my alternator the same as yours.

Thanks again Kevin.


Im off to the shed.
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Old Yesterday, 08:55 AM
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Hi Peter,
I will provide more details tomorrow.
Kevin
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Old Today, 02:55 AM
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Here are some photos on the AC pump and ancillaries and changes we made to the cooling system.

The AC pump (compressor) has a casting number on it 2002747. The pump also has a plate on it with "Chrysler" and a serial number stamped into it.

I should emphasise however that this pump does not seem to perform very well. So if you intend to go down this track you might want to source a remanufactured one from Four Seasons in the USA.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Engine full frontal.jpg (290.9 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg Engine front closer.jpg (281.1 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg AC pump number.jpg (289.3 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg alternator.jpg (411.6 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg Distributor.jpg (366.4 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg compressor front.jpg (456.3 KB, 3 views)

Last edited by Kevin H; Today at 03:19 AM.
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Old Today, 03:55 AM
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Default changes to the cooling system

After installing AC I found that the engine was no longer cooled sufficiently for the Australian summer climate. The reasons were two fold - firstly a condenser was now in front of the radiator and the original twin electric fans mounted in a cowl, were positioned at least 6 inches away from the condenser and were not forcing air through the condenser and radiator - it was too easy for the air to go around these obstructions. A large electric fan was added to the rear of the radiator, this improved the situation, but the engine cooling was still marginal at best on 30+ degree days.

The original, radiator, cowl and fans were removed and a new radiator and twin fan assembly was fabricated. The condenser was moved forward and this new assembly was mounted behind the condenser, so effectively the fan were sandwiched between the condenser and radiator. We found that an additional fan on the back of the radiator was still required, but this was effective in keeping the engine at the correct temperature even in hot weather.

It has since occurred to me that the AC performance may be improved by fitting a fan to the front of the condenser.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 411 fan assembly.jpg (313.5 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg fans-and-condenser-2.jpg (435.2 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg Fans-and-radiator-2.jpg (321.9 KB, 3 views)
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Old Today, 02:08 PM
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Puller fans are far more efficient than pusher.
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