Oh, I see,

Have you done comparable work? Are you capable of doing comparable work - I seem to remember that there was talk of writing a Bristol e-book on this forum - perhaps you could take this on?

Did I succeed in being crude enough or do I need to redouble my efforts.

Pip - pip,

Ozy NOT Disgustedly

Has The Kentuckian Gone Chicken.....?
 

Come on and be a friendly old boy and send me a post, the suspense is killing me. To while away the hours here are a couple of my favourite Kentucky jokes that I am sure you will be able to identify with................



Two Kentuckians came over to Indiana to buy a Bristol 603, but they only had a limited budget. They looked all over, and finally came upon a car lot with a Bristol 404 and a broken down old camel for sale. They asked the salesman if they could take the camel on a test drive, and he said “Sure.”
After being gone for a very long period of time, the salesman got worried that they were not coming back, so he called the police. Just as soon as he hung up the phone, the two Kentuckians showed up, but without the camel. He asked what happened to the camel, and said the story better be good. The two Kentuckians replied, "We were going along down the street just fine, and came upon a stop light, so we did. Then a carload of Hoosiers pulled up beside us and one said, "Look at those 2 butt holes on that camel". So when we got off the camel to take a look, the camel ran away"


A Kentuckian goes to his neighbor's shack and finds him printing counterfeit money in the basement.
“Whatchya doin'?”
“Printin' funny money.”
“But look here, you idjit, these is $19 bills!”
“Yeah, so I was fixin' to go spend 'em up in Indiana. I figger they won't know the difference.”
So the two go across the border in a Bristol 603 and they decide to go to a filling station and buy $5 worth of gas, to see if they can use their $19 bills.
They get their gas, the counterfeiter goes inside to pay and comes back to the car.
His buddy the 603 owner sez: “Did it work? Did they take the bill?”
“They sure did! They even gave me the right change--an eight and two threes!”

My tuppence
 

Good ones Ozy...been enjoying the back and forth between you and Mr. Sanctimonious....

I once met a Kentuckian wearing one shoe so I asked if he had lost a shoe....he said "no, I found one"...

Hey Paul,

Good one, but in the words of Frank Carson, there's more, I hope yopu like this one as much as Mr Sanctimonious will............................................

Two Kentuckians are driving along a highway in a red Bristol 603 when they see a sheep with its head stuck in a fence. The first one says, “Heyyy, here’s our chance to have some fun!” The driver says what, are we going to have an ‘ad hominem’ then pulls over and they get out of the Bristol 603 and go over to the sheep. Sure enough it’s head is stuck firmly in place and there is no escape.


The driver says, “Now I see….. I’m gonna have me a little piece of that…” he then dropped his pants, removed his flat cap and began “servicing” the sheep from behind. When he was done, he looked at the second one and said, “Okay, I’ve had my fun ‘ad nauseum’ it’s your turn now.” The second one gave the driver a smile and said,, “Whoooohoo, I’ve always dreamed of this!” He then dropped his pants and stuck his head in the fence next to the sheep and said, “Go ahead, and take your time!”


Ha ha ha - its a cracker,

Chucklefully yours and hoping my good friend Lukehansen's giggle button is also piqued,

Ozy

that is a cracker...i've heard similar but involved three guys at a bar and an alligator, but the joke is probably tailored based on region ad nauseum...

I did know this chap from Kentucky who wanted to marry a girl from the next town. The chap's father, knowing the family of the girl in question well, said "if she ain't good enough for her own family, she ain't good enough for ours".

Giggle,

That one is priceless Paul, how about.................

What do you get when you have 32 Kentuckians in the same room?

A full set of teeth!!!!!!

Or what about....................

What does a porcupine and the University of Kentucky’s Rupp Arena have in common?
A porcupine has 18,000 pricks on the outside and is also incapable of writing a treatise titled Bristol - Critical Justification & Appraisal.
Ho,ho, ho, gurgle, fnarrr!

Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project
 

I think we will have to agree to differ on the merits of feedback
style. It would be a shame to discourage enthusiasm at the gestation
stage of a project. I haven't had an opportunity to read the report
myself as I am travelling, but I am looking forward to doing so

Paul

Ah, for once a spat that I'm not involved in!

Gordon, you have probably already worked out that you need to be thick skinned to offer up anything on this site for critical analysis but I hope that doesn't put you off.

You have been quite critical about Bristol Cars so you can expect quite a bit of flack from those who believe they can do no wrong.

Personally I don't think you should have removed the link, but I did feel you should have let people know it was a 50Mb file and that it may take a while to download. The acrobat.com interface could be more informative.

While your document may contain some inaccuracies and subjective opinion in, as an overall package I thought it was pretty good, which of course means nothing, (thought I may as well say that before someone else does). Clearly you have put a lot of time and effort into it.

Should you be listing your sources for factual information?

You certainly provided considerable food for thought and debate and I for one don't have time to get into that right now.

I really liked the document layout and style - what application did you use to produce it?

Kevin

!

Wuv you................

Ozy

...for the record I did read the paper and also think that it's a pretty decent first run at an overview of Bristol and possible ways forward...

...now back to my ad hominem and grits...

PaulS
411 s2 (under reconstruction)

I agree with you, Gordon will be unpopular with those that believe that Bristol is without fault but it's a good attempt and very well presented. Well, I'm off now to have possum & grits with non sequitor on the side cooked by my Uncle Cletus - yee-haw y'all.

Ozy

Critique of the critique
 

I did read the whole document, although I did not study some of the drawings to the point of total comprehension.

In science, there is a problem when the objective observer brings his own mask of what passes for reality and therefore produces his evaluation and interpretations based on that mask.

In philosophy I have always been fascinated how Plato understood this problem, and therefore wrote his dialogues as a mirror so that the academic who would interpret them would write about their own view of reality rather than that of Socrates. I tend to think this is why his works have survived.

In this same vein, I must commend Mr. Farquar for his hard work, but at the same time suggest that it fails to accomplish what it represents to achieve.

We have come to define reality in a particular way, which among other things, sets a particular standard for what constitutes a good web site, a subject that Mr. Farquar critiques with a scathing review. He presents as the model of excellence the work product of top photographers, graphic designers and advertising agencies. The reality of course is different. Most land rovers, for example will not be found on a low tide beach, breathing the brisk fresh air of the seaside, but in an upscale carpark or picking the kiddies up from school. Most upscale 4 wheel drives are never put through their paces; it's all about image. Especially among the young, the blurring of reality with image is such that the derivative reality is becoming more real for them than the physical. To put it bluntly, the web site is irrelevant to Bristol or Bristol reality. It is important to Mr. Farquar because he believes it is important. He is of the derivative reality generation.

I found the reference to Robert Farago's on-line review of Bristols to be inappropriate. Mr. Farago was unable to get any interest from Bristol Cars or any owner of a reasonable condition late model car. So instead he borrowed a junker. The balance of the quote would have revealed:

"What are the two things that can be seen from outer space?" the owner asked rhetorically. "The Great Wall of China and the panel gaps of a Bristol." True enough, despite the fact that this particular Blenheim had recently enjoyed a body-off restoration– to eliminate rot. Which was discovered after the car's paint had cracked (necessitating a total re-spray). Whereupon the owner's mechanics addressed a veritable laundry list of mechanical ailments: inoperative air conditioning, "inappropriate" shock absorbers, a failed exhaust system, two blown window motors, axle whine, insufficient engine cooling and more."

Inappropriate shock absorbers, a failed body off restoration... the reviewed car was a scam, and the owner a hapless victim. From the description, it sounds as if the car would have been in a scrap heap had it had an ordinary badge on it. Instead it is a bodge, a tarted up old car bought by an unsuspecting fool.

Quoting Robert Farago's review is at the same level as quoting the Sun. Gossip not news.

I would rather have facts. Please measure the gaps of a new Bristol in the showroom. Are they consistent? How do they compare to other cars... and is there some standard about how wide or narrow the gap should be? Is it evidence of bad manufacture? Proof please, not gossip about a worn out heap.

The death trap page again shows the mask through which the author writes. He believes in computers. He believes in anti-lock brakes, traction control and air bags. I do not know if the statistics have changed, but Tony Crook used to claim that only three people have died in Bristols... one pulverized by a lorry, another drove off a cliff. In fact, I inspected and photographed a 410 that fell off a mountain in New York state and went through the roof of a barn. Not only did the occupants survive, the car did. Bristols are extremely strong cars that use a separate chassis and an energy absorbing aluminium body to protect the occupants.

"...completely irresponsible" is a nanny-state view of life. It is a belief that we must rely on engineering rather than skill, that we do not need to learn to drive, but only to operate the joystick; that the software will keep us out of trouble. This is a view of reality, indeed one very strong both in England, and in my country of New Zealand. However, it is not the reality of Bristol Cars or its customers.

Bristol sells cars in which the software is wired into the DNA. The driver learns how to brake in ice, snow or gravel so the wheels do not lock. The driver learns how much gas to give so the tyres do not lose traction. The driver learns how to avoid crashes, and for safety buckles up. In short, the buyer of a Bristol is mature, has learned to drive the car, and selects it for these very virtues. Again, we have a clash of realities

Question Mr. Farquar. Have you ever been in a car crash and been hit by the airbag? If not, try it. It may cause you to re-evaluate page 50.

Finally, I note the owner's survey has a fundamental flaw in it. I may have missed it, but it is important to state the average age of the cars covered in the survey. The 412 came out thirty-five years ago. The Brigand shortly thereafter. These are not "cars" in the sense of the review. These are antiques. Their owners are not car buyers, they are collectors. There is a world of difference between a buyer of a new or late model Bristol and the gentlemen (and occasional lady) of our various clubs. While it is more fruitful to send a questionnaire to the collectors, it is worthless in a document focused on the future.

Overall, Mr. Farquar, it was well assembled document, looks like you have mastered InDesign and Photoshop, and you have a good career ahead of you in the world of virtual reality.

But next time, if I may suggest it, do the story on BMW, Ford or another manufacturer who shares your reality mask.

Claude

Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project
 

Well said Ozy,

Nick

Critique of the critique
 

Whilst people have different opinions, I am shocked at how rude and
aggressive a number of individuals are on this forum and this is a regular
occurrence. It doesn't matter whether an individual either just happens to
have a different opinion or whether they are talking rubbish, they are
entitled to be spoken to politely and with respect. I take it too many
members of this forum have forgotten what good manners and respect for a
different opinion means and frankly I am getting a bit sick and tired of
reading tirades against individuals. If people weren't so rude, there would
be many more individuals ready to contribute to this forum.

Andrew

Andrew - I am not sure whether or not your commentry may be directed at me amongst others but I should like to add my response to it. You need to live in the real world and grow up a bit. I am sure we would all look forward to your contributions. I would love to see more technical discussions and resources on this forum. What I don't like to see are empty vessels making the most noise about nothing or spouting effete, politically correct, lefty/metrosexual rubbish.



Really, I'm of the 'sow the wind reap the whirlwind school of thought' I didn't think the design student was treated with respect and so I spoke out.


I am sure you are right - perhaps a person of your delicate disposition should refrain from reading such upsetting tirades as they might give you nightmares! I would also advise not watching Dr Who but wonder whether or not you may prefer Torchwood?

Solicitously yours and hoping to balm your fevered brow with a soothing unction,

Ozy,

Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project
 

Can we be clear here, there are TWO Pauls on this thread, Paul/Lansdown Place which is me and another Paul. I haven't read the report and only commented on the inaccuracy of a posting, which doesn't qualify me as a 'numpty'.

There are posts of the Farago report, this was based on a 10/12 year old car which had been 'custom' rebuilt by some backstreet garage and then left to rot in the rain. I can't imagine many manufacturers coming out well based on a review of an abused car which had been restored under the arches somewhere. A subsequent owner of the car had BCL sort it out and was delighted with it. I suspect that Mr Crook got up his nose a bit as well.

On panel gaps etc, the current assembly/design techniques for cars allow for a level of product precision that exceeds aircraft standards. Of course the develpment costs mean you have to produce tens of thousands of cars to break even, unless you Bugatti in which case you can absorb a four million pound loss on each car. The panel gaps on the Blenheim 4 are the equal of any production car, all done on an english wheel.

Paul (nothing to do with a 411!)

Critique of the critique
 

I quite agree Andrew

Critique of the critique
 

Well said Andrew!

Nick

Thanks Nick, with the departure of Pippa someone has to take up the baton in being forthright & controversial and it might as well be me. Whereas I cannot contribute the female standpoint, I believe that my humble solid waste management operative's opining may be of interest to some.,

In friendship,

Ozy

Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project
 

The thing is, I actually do live in the real world and was taught as a child
to be respectful to others opinions and debate them in a polite manner. To
tell me to grow up just proves my point in how rude you and some other
individuals are. If you cannot debate a subject without turning to insults
or snide remarks then maybe it is you who needs to grow up and learn manners
and the art of mature debate. Childish and offensive behaviour puts many of
us off contributing to this forum.

Andrew

I think most people are taught those core values as a child but, you know, every day I see boorish people forcing their opinions on others whom stand by cowed and subservient. How many times do I go to the supermarket and see perfectly able people park in disabled parking spots. How many times has someone selfishly parked so I am unable to get out of a parking space or the end of a drive.

I ask myself, what would a polite manner and debate gain if I were to engage these people.............? Prior experience has shown me how and the need sometimes to fight fire with fire. As Franklin Roosevelt once said - "Speak softly but carry a big stick." I would modify that sentiment by concluding that sometimes you have to speak forthright and forcibly to be heard over the braying though


I wonder whether or not you have followed the recent remake of the TV drama Survivors. For me the fascination of this series is the dynamic between a group of people whom are innocents whom need to 'grow up' and a single individual whom is streetwise, forthright, tough and lives in the 'real world' and soleley has made the greatest contribution to their continued existance. Were you to transport yourself and myself into a parallel scenario I wonder which camp we would each fall into? Diametrically opposed or brothers in arms?

Childish & rude Ozy - such a beast!

Critique of the critique
 

Andrew,
You are absolutely right.
I've been guilty of this in the past, usually late at night after a few
drinks.
The PDF presentation I thought was very good, on the history of Bristol.
Loved the aeroplanes! Would have liked to have been able to blow up all the
photo's of all the Bristol models, to follow the developments over time (not
sure if this is possible on PDF?).
Maybe it would have been wise to wait for phase II (the proposals), as it
seems Bristol were not keen on any of the proposed designs (I wasn't either
to be truthful). I assume these were just a first few sketches, not worked
out properly? They weren't very well drawn, or attractive.
With best regards,
Andy.

[quote=ozy;2512] As Franklin Roosevelt once said - "Speak softly but carry a big stick." QUOTE]

Theodore Roosevelt, actually, as the merest bit of research would reveal...and he was referring to national policy, not individual behavior...

But, don't let inaccuracy and irrelevancy deter you.

I have found the whole thread very amusing and entertaining, however even when you bully a bully, it is still bullying.

Don't really give a flying ... :-)

I wish could write like Claude even if I don't agree with some of it !

Not sure if Pippa would have made me laugh or said anything relevant although Deluded made me laugh.

Greg

Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project
 

Please be aware, when I make a comment the previous message isn't always the
one i'm replying to I have noticed.

Andrew

Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project
 

I think we need to understand who we are being rude to. Most members on
this forum are quite thick skinned and hence capable of defending
themselves. On the work presented by Gordon for comment, I for one did not
like the tone of Mr Browning's statements, which appeared to come from some
perceived position of virtual pomposity (I'm sure, that since he drives a
Bristol, he is a decent guy, it just didn't come across in his mail.) Here
we have a young lad, who so far has been very polite in asking for help from
us, shot down in flames in a most destructive manner. If an automotive
student is interested in Bristols he or she has got to be encouraged and
given every assistance.

Personally, I found Gordon's paper interesting; it does need editing and the
facts have to be checked more thoroughly, but it should be the basis for a
sound document. The web site tangent should be pared down to a more
appropriate size. It looks extremely professional and stylish, which could
be in danger of detracting from the content.

I am not talking about political correctness here, just mutual respect and
robust discussion, well presented.

Andy Bernard

Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project
 

Then why do you contribute by throwing your toys out of the pram?
I thought when I congratulated you on your opinion that they made sense but
this little tirade
of your will do nothing to contribute to the forum.
it is a place to air all things Bristol and not to air personal gripes.
I have never griped on this forum and resent your tone!
There is another forum which may suit you better, if not perhaps you can
refrain from tirades.

I think the moderator should end this disgraceful thread.

Nick

[quote=browning l;2514]I think " as the merest bit of research" seems to be one of your stock sentences. Comrehension is another - I don't think I qualified whether or not I wads referring to national policy or individual behaviour, I just made a statement. I fail to see what was inaccurate or irrelevent about it.

Did you have to go to special salesman training school to learn how to be this way or is it a natural ingrained trait - I'm not being rude just curious.

Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project
 

Ozy, are you maybe Australian?

Oh come Nick, this thread should keep going - look 66 posts already, now that must be a record. Personally I'm going for 100! If its ended I'll only have to try to turn another thread into a tirade. I don't think I am throwing my toys out of the pram - just being a capricious sprite adding my opinions to the melting pot and I am so sorry that you don't like them.

Remember, I didn't start this tirade but I have no qualms about continuing to add to it. And as for this being a place to air all things Bristol, yes, I had hoped that when I joined - pity isn't it?

Perhaps you can let me know which forum would you prefer me to join

Ozy

Rubbond,

Unfortunately not. Although I am partial to koala bears, Kylie and of course Kevin. I am just a humble Yorkshireman with very little woolabrawonga and an endearing line of chat.

My nom-de-plume stems from Percy Byshe Shelley's Ozymandias.

what is a pink oboe ?

A fellow Yorkshire -- that explains the numpty bit LOL

Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project
 

You don't win debates by being rude and with insults, you win them with good
factual but reasonable argument. Good factual argument doesn't need you to
be rude or offensive. In fact being rude or offensive usually makes people
less likely to take you seriously, as it devalues both your argument and
your abilities to argue a point. Using rude people in society in the
outside world as defence of your poor behaviour on this forum is frankly
laughable. I will repeat again, being rude, offensive or aggressive in
attacking a persons point of view puts many people off contributing on this
forum and there is no excuse for it

Andrew

I'll give you a clue - you will possibly have one on your door at home.

You know, I work in Lancashire and had never heard the term Numpty until I went there.

Yes, I heard you the first time and do not need the two succesive repeats to ram this home. OCD rules OK

Oz

Okay , I have got it. I will ask the missus to blow on my letterbox.

I think I may of heard numpty first when I worked in Bolton

Absolutely fantastic, I'm in the throes of mirthful apoplexy. Never knew there was a 408 in York - I wondered whom had bought all the Bristol stuff at the Paul Smith shop at Askham Grange.

Did you know that in Kentucky they have bigger letterboxes than we have here in the UK - allegedly.

Ozy

Wanted - Owners Views for University Design Project
 

Dear Ozy,
Thanks for the explaination.
I'm actually a Yorkshireman myself, born in Doncaster, but have lived in
Holland for over 35 years.
Yorkshiremen are known to call a spade a spade, but I think you have been
rather too rude of late for that to be acceptable.
A short apology I'm sure would be appropriate, and would set things right.
Would you be prepared to do that?
I would appreciate that.
With best regards,
Andy.