Bristol alternatives.

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by TLF799R

For such an expert on Bristol I am surprised you are so unfamiliar with the 411 series 6???

Ironically just last night I read an article in the Sept Octane mag about the refurbished and modernised 411, which Toby Silverton is quoted as saying "what you might call a Bristol 411 Series VI". But semantics aside, what a beautiful car!

They have of course been doing this for a long time, the "Grief" 411 S5 being an example from 8 years ago. But the fact that they are now marketing the idea is great news for us 411 owners, because they just might start manufacturing some parts which were no longer available. It might even increase the value of the 411, which as the writer says was probably the "best looking, offering an ideal package of styling and performance".

Originally Posted by TLF799R

Nothing Bristol do will ever be good enough for you.

This is not correct, I have spent considerable amounts of time and money restoring a 411 to how Bristol built it in the first place, with a few "improvements" along the way, some of which I regret now, although the Octane article is encouraging. I wouldn't have done this if I wasn't very happy to be the owner of a Bristol. There are however things that I believe Bristol could have done better over the years, and I can assure you I am not alone in this belief.

Originally Posted by TLF799R

Is there some kind of traumatic incident you had with Bristol that I'm unaware of?

Not exactly "traumatic" but there is some history.

I believe scepticism of marketing spiel is quite healthy, and in Bristol's case there is good reason. When Bristol first started using Chrysler's engines and transmissions there were claims that these items were "Bristolised", in other words modified by Bristol's engineers to improve on Chrysler's work. There was talk of special cam shafts and even removal of hydraulic tappets which the old "A" series engines never had in the first place. Even Leonard Setright admitted in his book "A Private Car" that he had he been sucked in by these stories, to which he had unwittingly given authority that they did not deserve, by stating them as fact in his earlier book, "Bristol Cars and Engines".

Mr Guy Drummond, QC highlighted these "misconceptions" in a letter published in the BOC Bulletin of Spring 1975. As a footnote to Guy Drummond's letter, LJKS, who was the Editor at the time, said "I am suitably chastened - not to mention embarrassed".

I don't blame Bristol for their marketing strategy back then in the early 1970s, after all everyone was stretching the truth a bit in their marketing hype. In fact it was quite a clever marketing strategy which helped them sell cars for extremely high prices, despite the fact that they used a power train that was common as muck in the US.

Fast forward to Sept 2001, and an EVO magazine article about the Bristol Fighter included comments such as "We take the basic structure of the engine and 'Bristolise' it. "

Now having just torn down the engine from my 411 to find a domestic spec Chrysler 400 cid engine with nothing special about it at all (it even still had a cast crank), I concluded that if Bristol were not really enhancing Chrysler engines back in the early 1970s (my engine was made in 1973, despite my 411 being made in '76), then it was hard to believe that they were improving on the V10, which was a available as a crate engine from Chrysler with almost identical power and torque figures to that which Bristol were quoting. I expressed these views in the BOC email forum at the time.

What happened next was quite remarkable. The Patron of the BOC, Mr Crook, allegedly threatened to sue the BOC and the people running it, unless they published an apology in the BOC forum and the BOC Bulletin magazine. Apparently, Mr Crook's letter to the BOC Chairman was addressed "Dear Sir/Madam" !

Unfortunately Bob Charlton, who ran the BOC email Forum at the time, published a letter from Michael Barton who stated as fact that I had defamed and libelled Bristol Cars, when I had done no such thing. So things got pretty ugly for a little while.

The funny thing is, while this row was unfolding I visited Bristol in the UK to buy some parts for my 411 and no one said a word to me. In fact I never heard anything from Bristol at all. I think Mr Crook just wanted an excuse to muzzle the BOC.

Originally Posted by TLF799R

You never seem to be voicing these theories on any forum bar your own???

What other forum do you have in mind? I was barred from posting comments in the BOC Forum, which is why I created the BEEF mail list, which eventually led to the development of this forum.

People are free to voice their opinions in this forum, and enter into robust debate, even if they might irritate the establishment.

[potential]

Originally Posted by Kevin Howard

Now having just torn down the engine from my 411 to find a domestic spec Chrysler 400 cid engine with nothing special about it at all (it even still had a cast crank), I concluded that if Bristol were not really enhancing Chrysler engines back in the early 1970s

I think this subject is worthy of a thread of its own. I don't have the experience you do with the cars but my understanding from what I'd read was that the engines were stripped down and 'blueprinted' - no parts changed from factory but rebuilt to aircraft engineering standards with all tolerances and torques at optimum and all the castings cleaned up. It's likely this is an optimistic view of what happened.

Has any mechanic or engineer who worked in Bristol ever talked?

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by potential

I think this subject is worthy of a thread of its own.

I think this thread could spawn numerous other threads so I'm going to close it as it's now way off the original topic.

I have started a new thread about Bristol's use of Chrysler engines here http://www.bristolcars.info/forums/showthread.php?t=141 (in the 8 cyl Bristol forum).

If anyone else wants to continue any of the other discussions I suggest you start a new thread in the relevant forum.

If required I can copy posts to a new thread - just use the Contact Us form at the bottom of the page and tell me the post number(s) and where you want them copied to - I can create a new thread title when copying.

Thanks,
Kevin