Advice please on Transmission Removal 411

[Claude]

I can't believe it has been 8 years since I began this thread. A couple of weeks ago, someone In Auckland enquired about purchasing the 411, so - as it is the Christmas holiday and all of NZ is closed for summer - I pulled it out of deep storage and began to clean it up. Now that prospective buyer says he won't be able to look at the car until after returning from overseas travel, but my momentum in preparing it to be seen is prompting me to getting it on the road.

The old transmission is still in the car, but given that the market for 411's has risen, I began to look at what needs to be done to get the car on the road and then sold... either here in NZ or sent to England on consignment.

There is no 411 shop manual, but the 407-408 shop manual reads as follows. Has anyone actually followed this procedure? Comments and advice please.

Thanks,
Claude

Removing Transmission - This must be carried out from inside the car.

• Drain the cooling system.
• Drain the transmission by detaching the transmission dipstick/filter tube.
• Remove the carpets, seats, tunnel and floorboards.
• Remove the handbrake lever and ratchet.
• Disconnect the propeller shaft.
• Disconnect the oil cooler tubes
• Disconnect the throttle linkage
• Disconnect the gearshift control cable (the 411 uses a stick shift)
• Disconnect the nylon semi-rigid fuel pipe at the engine.
• Slacken the bolts attaching the exhaust pipes to the manifold and without removing the bolts run the nuts to the extreme end of the thread.
• Disconnect the heater pipe at engine and disconnect the oil pressure pipe.
• Remove the air cleaner and carburettor and attach the Engine Lifting Fixture (Bracket) Tool C - 3466 to the carburettor flange studs on the intake manifold.
• Take the weight of the engine with a hoist and disconnect the transmission mounting to the chassis.
• Remove the oil filler, air cleaner and raise the back of the engine by the use of slings or jacking sufficiently to allow the transmission to be clear of the chassis.
• Support the transmission and remove the four bolts attaching it to the torque converter casing.
• With adapted lifting tackle it can now be removed from the car.

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by Claude

There is no 411 shop manual, but the 407-408 shop manual reads as follows....

Wow, what a palava! Although I had a tranny self destruct on a V8 Aston many years ago and that had to come out through the cabin, although it was a convertible which made it easier.

What's actually wrong with the transmission? Just wondering if it can be repaired in in situ.

As it happens, just today I removed the valve body from the transmission on a Mercedes ML430 to change a solenoid in the conductor plate, which sits on top of the valve body .Took about five hours in total before the car was back on the road (although I've done it before so I knew what I was doing). I guess modern cars are a designed to be more serviceable.

[Claude]

Originally Posted by Kevin H

What's actually wrong with the transmission? Just wondering if it can be repaired in in situ.

Short Answer: Vague shifter, wonky shifting, experts baffled after spending my money, and then their own unbilled time. Unlikely it can be fixed in-situ in the absence of a 727 guru.

Long Answer:

When I began restoration of the 411, the US shop suggested that they send the transmission out to be overhauled as a precautionary measure, since the car was being dismantled for corrosion work and rebuilding in the US is cheap. The rebuilder, a reputable company, suggested that for $100 extra, he could take the lock-up function of a similar Chrysler and build it in, along with making the shifting crisper. Unfortunately, before the work could be adequately tested, after chassis repair was completed, the car moved to the metal specialist who cut out all corrosion and welded in new aluminium... and then to the paint shop who ran out of time before the car had to go into a container for shipment to NZ. So I only discovered the transmission flaw when it arrived in Auckland.

The car also still had an engine overheating problem, so I sent the car to a Chrysler performance shop that recommended rebuilding the engine, which he did. He sent the transmission out - which I paid for, but they still could not get it right because the lock-up parts were left in... it was only after three more attempts (that the transmission shop had to do at no charge) that they concluded something was incompatible. In NZ a Chrysler transmission is an exotic, meaning it went in the too hard basket.

When after all the work was done and money spent, we sent the car for its VIN and they required all the repairs be inspected by an independent engineer who said he wanted to cut out the bottom of the freshly restored chassis to inspect its inside. After paying the first few thousand dollars in bills for this process, I saw where this was going... if you want their signature you pay whatever they demand). And the freshly-rebuilt engine still overheated. I quit, towed the car home and got on with other projects.

In 2010, while moving a container from LA to AKL, I bought a 727 transmission in LA and tossed it in the container. I reckon the easiest way to solve this is to just pull the old unit and swap it out. I had the transmission serviced, tested and declared that on the bench it looks fine. I also finally sorted the engine tuning by tossing the Carter and buying a Bates-Engineering-tuned Holly 670 Avenger with electric choke. It starts instantly and purrs, running fine until the temperature gauge climbs. But back to the question...

The current trans symptoms are:

• Vague movement of the shifter. It's a bit of hunt to find reverse or drive
• Upshifting is not as expected. Hard to describe, but it delays, or shifts too early or too late and does not end up in top gear when it should

... and to move on, my wife wants to take over that part of the garage for her art studio, turning her studio into a gallery. So urgency to do something rises.

I contacted SLJ Hacket, who reckons the sale price of the car is in the £29,000 range (less commissions, shipping to the UK and any shop sorting) or about half that if they bought it wholesale for resale. Not a great ROI, but domestic tranquillity is priceless and living on a 1x20 km island with two roads and a speed limit of 50 kph, it's the wrong car for the environment (our active cars are a Mercedes SLK for glorious top down driving and Mercedes G-Wagon for the unsealed roads, plus ebikes that are our primary form of daily transport).

However, the overheating, wonky transmission and the properly repaired but not-painted dent to the LF guard will affect saleability. Better that I do what I can down here than ship off a 7/8th done restoration where the transmission is wonky and the engine overheats.

I may be able to get an assistant to help me pull the power train, but it is very bulky and heavy, and if it was possible to extract just the transmission by removing the interior, it seems like a more attractive option. Hence my original query, hoping someone who owned a 411 would be able to tell me their real life experience removing and replacing a 727 transmission from inside the cockpit.

In any case, the car is now seriously for sale, I have a sense of the market value and expect that the buyer will be overseas, not in NZ. It still has its UK V5 and rego plate, so reregistry to be easier if it goes to the UK. Containers are cheap, about US$1,200 to Felixstowe. Hence the pressure to get the car sorted.

Any and all advice appreciated.

[Kevin H]

Claude,
Your transmission problems could be caused by so many things. There are many tests and adjustments that can be done in situ without removing the transmission from the car, but they require hydraulic fluid pressure measurements, so some specific equipment is needed. The tests require the car to be on a hoist so the engine can be run with the transmission engaged (wheels turning), so if your engine is overheating this complicates things, because you would be limited how long you can run the engine and it will also overheat the transmission fluid as well.

I think perhaps the engine overheating should be tackled first.

Here's a link to a fault diagnosis list for the Torqueflite A-727-A
https://mega.nz/#!odoBBKzS!L0PpIYGPS...5mLHDwUL2Facus (this is the first time I have used Mega for sharing files so please let me know if there are any issues).

[Claude]

Originally Posted by Kevin H

Claude,


I think perhaps the engine overheating should be tackled first.
(this is the first time I have used Mega for sharing files so please let me know if there are any issues).

Thanks Kevin. The Mega works, but my problem is that the shop tried something flawed. They combined two transmissions to make mine become a lockup, and in the process installed something incompatible. Easier to just replace it.

But if you have a diagnostic for what to check on overheating, I would love to see it. Otherwise I may begin by pulling the radiator and water pump and having them checked and rebuilt. If I keep having trouble with the engine, I will try to track down the 383 that I sent down to South Island at the time I bought the transmission... it is still around, I may just have them check it over and put both of them in and be done with the powertrain that has caused me so much wasted money.