408 With Negative Camber

[Kevin H]

Originally Posted by jeff02740

Thank you for your response, the fulcrum brackets are required to support the inner part of the 1/2 inch diameter bolt that goes through the wishbone and bushing.

Yes, of course!

These are hand built cars so every one is set up individually. When we were dismantling the front suspension on my 411, the service manager at Bristol suggested we take great care to label all the parts so that no parts were swapped from one side to the other on re-assembly.

[jeff02740]

When I disassembled, I did one side at a time as not to get parts mixed up, old bushings were pressed out, wishbones sandblasted and inspected, painted and new bushings pressed in. All went together fine with no play anywhere. I did not remove the ball joints from the king pins as they were tight with no noticeable play.

[Kevin H]

jeff02740, I didn't mean to suggest that you had made a mistake - I didn't realise that you had completely disassembled the front suspension - but at some time in the car's history it might have been dismantled before.

It's interesting that you could press the bushes out, they usually have to be cut out. Do you know the history of the car?

Edit/PS: i'm thinking that if the bushes pressed out easily then it is likely they had already been replaced at some stage.

[DODD]

jeff02740

It’s very interesting that the camber angle on each side of the car is slightly different.

When I removed the bushes from the wishbones of my 410, they all had to be cut and drilled out using a core drill at a slow speed before being pushed out with force. The new bushes were pressed in using the appropriate lubricant, with what I also considered to be a lot of force.

Whilst the front suspension of the 408 to 411 is very similar, it’s not exactly the same. There are some subtle modifications as the models progressed.

It’s my opinion that slightly elongating the 4No. holes in the chassis or the fulcrum bracket which accept fixing bolts for the fulcrum brackets to the chassis, will not seriously effect the camber angle as the outer part of the upper wishbone fixings in the chassis are set and not adjustable (and must not be elongated). Elongating the holes in the brackets should only be considered if the wishbone fulcrum bracket holes don’t line up with those in the chassis; If the wishbone bracket fixing holes and the holes in the chassis aren’t in line, the upper wishbone bushes will be slightly in twist. I hope I have described that properly and it makes sense.

I also wish to note the holes as shown in the diagram in Kevin’s posting are elongated in a direction along the length of the bracket; holes in that position will only slightly effect the caster angle. The hole would need to be elongated at 90 degs to that shown, to affect the camber.

Presumably, the part numbers will be stamped in the castings on your wishbones, have you checked they are for your model?

Again in Kevin’s posting whereby he refers “resources front wishbone” the diagram therein is somewhat different from my 410. The lower wishbone where it connects with the lower suspension joint on the hub is a completely different design. It may also have had the bushing modified at the same time. If your lower wishbones have been replaced with those from a different model, this may effect the camber.

Other areas to check, if you haven’t already done so, are the wheel bearings and the stub axle. Have you checked the ride height on each side of the car, also the coil springs and dampers?

One last point and please don’t take any offence but the car is over 50 years old and may have suffered some corrosion or even been involved in a bump in its life, which will have been repaired but left the chassis with a slight twist, this may result in the differing camber angles.

As I noted earlier, this is only my opinion.

Regards

Brian

[Kevin H]

I found some photos from when my 411 S5 front suspension was restored in 2001. You can see in one of the images that the holes in the crossmember subframe which the upper wishbone bolts go through to are in fact elongated (I believe this is original).

In the other picture you can see that the fulcrum brackets are quite different to the 408 and run in the opposite direction. Therefore drilling new holes in the fulcrum bracket on the 411 S5 will affect the camber. Obviously this is not the case on the 408.

I note that on the Parts List there are three different pairs of fulcrum bracket parts numbers!

[Kevin H]

jeff02740

When you did the work on your front suspension was the sloping distance piece on top of the spring still there and the rubber spring seat?

On later cars there is also a steel washer between the two (which is well worth adding). See photo here.

[DODD]

Kevin

Thanks for the photos attached to your posting. I have been trawling through some of my photos from when I refurbished the front suspension on my early 410, with power steering. The two holes in the crossmember subframe do appear to be elongated, though I don’t remember them being so.

I would have thought with the forces involved in moderate to heavy driving, the two 1/2” fixing bolts to the upper wishbone where they pass through the elongated holes, would move. Therefore, I have to stand corrected on that point but I still can’t understand the logic, hopefully someone will enlighten me.

The fulcrum brackets on my early 410 (power steering) are exactly the same as per your second photo, 411 S5; perhaps the elongation of the holes in question only relate to cars with power steering.

Brian