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Brabazon

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 15-12-08, 07:04 PM
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To Clyde 406special: you are right, the two waves on bonnet and bootlid can still be lowered a bit, again a bit of exaggeration typical of the designer...

Also scallops on wheelarches would be softened in production, but they definitely make slimmer the side flanks that otherwise would appear too slab-sided. See also the Rolls-Royce Hyperion one-off special from Pininfarina of this year, where the same treatment is used to reduce the bulk.

The rear oval appearance is there to mirror the front, but also to blend harmoniously with the rear window: indeed I would have liked a fastback as in the early Bristols, but unfortunately the third volume is a must in the luxury car sector. By the way, it also frees up some more luggage space.

To Penman: rear overhang is a bit too long, I would like to shorten it in a next evolution. The most troubled view is probably the profile: the Brabazon seems a bit like a beached whale and the ratio between height of side windows and doors must be slightly reworked.

Finally, to rubbond: I agree with you that car design went bonkers after the Sixties, because of many factors including growing size of passengers needing more space, more complex glassing thanks to technology, and safety issues. But this deterioration applies to nearly every designed object, from clothing to painting or architecture, because the whole concept of beauty has shifted from what was previously "harmonious to the eye" to what is "innovative or astonishing for the mind", which very often does not coincide with beautiful.

Giacomo
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 15-12-08, 08:20 PM
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Default Brabazon & Style

All -

I've never understood why all car manufacturers simply do not hire
Giugiaro for all their designs. His worst design is better than at
least 95% of everything else.

Bob
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 17-12-08, 06:03 AM
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Bob,
Bite your tongue(in cheek)! Giugiaro is great without doubt, but variety is the spice of life. What a sad world it would be if no counterpoint were available in design, and what should be high art is relegated to orthodoxy.
There are many prolific but less-well-known designers out there for whom credit should be noted.
Greg
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 18-12-08, 03:49 PM
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Default Many Designers?

Greg -

I see your point. I guess life is more interesting because God didn't stop after he "designed" Italian/Swedish/California women. Many "counterpoint" examples even here, in Southern California.

Bob

Last edited by Kevin H; 18-12-08 at 09:55 PM. Reason: removed superfluous text
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 18-12-08, 10:24 PM
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There are lots of people out there who think many of the V8 Bristols are ugly beasts, particularly at the front.

But is beauty not in the eye of the beholder? Each to his own and all that.

If this were not the case, then who would buy the current shape Rolls Royce?

Colour can make a big difference to how a particular design is perceived. There's also the phenomenon of a design "growing on you" and of course the opposite - something that you liked initially but with hindsight or in comparison to later designs you now don't think much of. I suppose this is what's known as a design becoming "dated".

IMHO variety of design is essential, otherwise everything would start to look the same.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 19-12-08, 12:50 AM
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Default Brabazon

Just because some people like something, doesn't make it good looking. Many
men love ugly women, but they are still ugly!

Apologies to all ugly women LOL.

Andrew

>
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 19-12-08, 10:53 AM
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Having been a fan of Bristol cars for over 30 years, I find the very fact that someone has spent the time thinking about and working on designs for the next generation of cars a positive thing.

I have one reservation, and nothing to do with the styling (Bristols have always been an aquired taste) is there a market for a four seater?

I know that Ferrari build one Porsche, Aston Martin and Lamborghini are proposing new models, but they serve a different market to the traditional Bristol four seaters.

If you look at the market today all of the tiny manufacturers make two seaters (Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini etc are all owned by multi-nationals) whereas Bristol now share a market with manufacturers such as Pagani, Keonigsegg, MacLaren, Spyker, Gumpert etc (Aston Martin's production figures now make them a relative mass producer).

If Bristol release a new model (the cost associated with designing a brand new car is enormous - a heard a figure of 40m for the Fighter's development) so developing a new car from scratch and making a profit on that sort of investment may be impossible with production figures being so low, whereas it could be based around the Fighters chassis, possibly a convertible...

TBC
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 19-12-08, 11:55 AM
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There is a market for a four-seater Bristol as long as it is based on the existing chassis and drivetrain of the Blenheim and keeping technical investment to a minimimum by profiting of Low Type Approval, which means no costly developments for ABS or airbags.

It should be like a new skin (possibly aligned to the Fighter styling cues) with a more aerodynamic bodywork and some ingenuous and cost-effective packaging solutions, aiming to recapture the existing customers who have been buying the proven Bristol formula of the past 40 years. Fighter is indeed aimed to a new clientele for Bristol, a bit like the Aero 8 has targeted a new audience for Morgan.

I do not think that the example of Bentley, where Volkswagen has exploited a big potential growing to a production of thousands per year, could apply to Bristol because in this case investment should be much larger and current climate does not help.

Giacomo
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 19-12-08, 01:59 PM
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I agree that it is possible if they retain the chassis. However I read somewhere that the next generation of Bristols will use Mercedes drivetrains which may indicate all the electronics that go with said package including ABS etc. I'm not sure that the tiny market for bespoke four seaters would accommodate a new car without features such as ABS.

Bristol have made some 50 Fighters and about the same number of Blenheims in the 14 years it has been in production. I hope that Bristol do make a replacement for the Blenheim but it would have to sell in relatively large numbers (in Bristol terms) and although Bristol cap their production to 150 cars a year the last time they made anywhere near that number was back in the sixties.

TBC
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 19-12-08, 02:16 PM
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However I read somewhere that the next generation of Bristols will use Mercedes drivetrains which may indicate all the electronics that go with said package including ABS etc.

I discovered that Andrew Blow had started this rumour in one of the Bulletins he edited - I seem to remember he admitted it was false!

50 Fighters in 5 years - and when do they hope to recoup the supposed 40m development costs????!
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 19-12-08, 05:02 PM
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That blows the Mercedes theory then (no pun intended).

Recouping development costs are an issue any car compnay has to face, develop a product that you can produce for a decade or two and produce numerous variations to keep it competative.

Pricing the car so that you have a generous profit margin also helps.

You also have the possibility of using the chassis to create other models, as Giaberto mentioned producing a new body (or body style) minimizes future development costs.

TBC
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 23-12-08, 09:23 AM
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Default Recouping development costs

I see that this problem has been reckognized with Bristol and think the dismissal of Tony Crook might have had something to do with it. The brand has received far more publicity than ever inside the last 2 years or so. Even the unthinkable happened: journos got a Fighter too play with - see Top Gear some months back.

It verges on the impossible these days to flog a substantial car at mega-upmarket prices without ABS and airbag. We are not even talking more fiddly stuff like limited slip diff etc. Even the half-way decently styled Fighter does not make any serious sales without such basics; we do not even want to think about the Bristol Capri.

Bristol invested big in the Fighter and Joe Lewis has gotten little back at all. Ex-son in law Toby has at least a hobby to see to.

@ Giacomo

Sorry, but ever heard of aerodynamics, drag and such things? Your design is remindful of comic-strips of the 1970s and from that viewpoint I like it. Else, it has little to do with feasible automotive design.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-09, 05:08 PM
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Development cost for ABS and airbags? Sorry, what development cost?
These are standard parts from Bosch and other suppliers.

Regards,
Markus
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-09, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Berzborn View Post
Development cost for ABS and airbags? Sorry, what development cost?
These are standard parts from Bosch and other suppliers.
It's not quite that simple. Modern ABS comprises a complex hardware and software "System" and needs to be specifically designed (and tested) for each vehicle. You can't simply take an ABS system from one car and put it on another.

This Wikipedia entry will give you a bit of an intro. In particular read the last section titled "Design and selection of components"
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-09, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Howard View Post
In particular read the last section titled "Design and selection of components"
I do not see anything complex there.

Regards,
Markus
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 20-08-16, 09:35 PM
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I think this Bristol Brabazon concept 3D rendering is very good, certainly more forward thinking than the recently unveiled Bristol Bullet which I feel is nothing more than a modern AC Cobra clone.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Brabazon1.jpg (20.4 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg Bullet2016.jpg (54.4 KB, 11 views)
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