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8 & 10 cyl Bristol cars Type 407 onwards - restoration, repair, maintenance etc

Diesel V8 - or straight six

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Old 27-02-11, 04:08 PM
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Default Diesel V8 - or straight six

Has anyone considered or replaced the Chrysler V8 engine with a diesel ?

I noticed the 6 cylinder diesel :-) but that was probably done for different reasons.

I heard that someone in Ireland was putting a Mercedes 320 CDI in a 411. These engines have tremendous torque and are very tunable.

Modern diesels are a lot lighter and a lot more powerful than their previous incarnations and could make a powerful economical alternative, and the same engine is fitted in the 300 Chrysler !

I asked Mr Silverton if Bristol had ever considered it , but he said what's the point when you can LPG a Chrysler engine and achieve the same economy ?.

Another consideration is the the extra weight and space taken up by LPG, and I am not convinced of the economy, whereas my Mercedes Estate 320 CDI does 40 mpg and goes like a rocket.

Obviously I was thinking of benefits for those who want to drive an old V8 Bristol on a everyday basis with good economy. Not future Concourse winners.

I also eat red meat and don't believe in man made global warming -- for those in attack mode :-)
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Old 27-02-11, 05:05 PM
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Yes! I've been thinking about this since the 410 has been at the factory. The dieselification of the Citroen SM was a success - decades ago. I think you always need two cars for this sort of thing - one to keep original and another to play with. So this is my plan: buy a 406 and two 407s. Gut one of the 407s and drop diesel power into it. Colour them all metallic silver/grey with red interiors. Line them all up at the front of the garage and - da-da! - three almost identical-looking cars, with unique uses and driving experiences.

The question is: which diesel engine? The PSA-sourced unit in the XF is great. The 4.2 V8 Audi isn't half bad. BMW engineers some great diesels, too, and perhaps they'd turn a blind eye - for old times' sake - if a few of the guys from Patchway parachuted in and stole the plans? Alternatively, we wait until the engineers in Crewe have finished developing the V8 diesel Bentley engine and again, parachute the guys in (headed by Syd) to photograph the plans with their miniature spy cameras. V8 might be too much, though, so we might have to chop two cylinders off ...much like the Maserati 6-cylinder in the SM came into being...

I'm not an LPG fan either. You lose a lot of the boot ("There is more than adequate room for four 6 ft people and some of their luggage, if they're not going away for long and haven't had time to pack") and the channel tunnel is out. The economy figures don't match and the stuff's not available everywhere.

It should be a Series 6 option. I'd love to know more about the Irish project.
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Old 27-02-11, 05:59 PM
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LOL

Didn't expect agreement !

I guess we have the option of BMW or Mercedes or even Mitsubishi 3.9 as used in Dodge trucks !

Worth a go ?

It's the future :-)
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Old 28-02-11, 02:13 PM
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This forum is not for advertising but you may know that my company is successfully fitting 2.7 TDV6 Land Rover engines to LR Defenders. I think fitting them to 407 and later Bristols would be quite possible. Outputs : 240 bhp (179 kW) and 420 lbf.ft (569 Nm). SO plenty of torque, and easily over 100 mph, probably about 115 mph would be quite possible. Contact me off-line at jond@jeengineering.co.uk if that is interesting.
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Old 28-02-11, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor View Post
This forum is not for advertising but you may know that my company is successfully fitting 2.7 TDV6 Land Rover engines to LR Defenders. I think fitting them to 407 and later Bristols would be quite possible. Outputs : 240 bhp (179 kW) and 420 lbf.ft (569 Nm). SO plenty of torque, and easily over 100 mph, probably about 115 mph would be quite possible. Contact me off-line at jond@jeengineering.co.uk if that is interesting.
I am not sure what the advertising policy is on this site ?

I have seen recommendations for Richard James, Colonel Spencer, ACCS , Bristol , BOC , BODA, Andrew Blow, Brian May, and a few others by people connected and not connected ! Most accepted by the webMASTER , and one or two not !!

At the bottom of the page ASDA insurance is advertised if anyone is interested :-)

Your Diesel transplant experience sounds very interesting and I would be surprised if any of the other usual contacts above could or would take it on !

An engine transplant can be reversed in most cases and if down the line someone wants to go back to original, they can. I know one or two 6 cylinder Bristol owners that run with a 5 speed ford gearbox but keep the original in case the next owner prefers a rougher ride / originality.

Thanks for the info

Last edited by Kevin H; 01-03-11 at 05:52 AM. Reason: deleted "commission" - unecessary
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Old 01-03-11, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by GREG View Post
I am not sure what the advertising policy is on this site ?

I have seen recommendations for Richard James, Colonel Spencer, ACCS , Bristol , BOC , BODA, Andrew Blow, Brian May, and a few others by people connected and not connected ! Most accepted by the webMASTER , and one or two not !!

At the bottom of the page ASDA insurance is advertised if anyone is interested :-)
Generally speaking I take a pretty dim view of people blatantly advertising their own or related commercial enterprises on this site, particularly when they don't even link back to this site from their own, nor do they contribute to the cost of operating the site. I am happy to consider reciprocal links.

I view genuine recommendations differently, when they are from an unrelated third party, such as a happy customer, but at the end of the day this isn't a democracy

I am a believer in give and take.

Over many years, Thor was a regular and meaningful contributor to the old BEEF mail list, which was the predecessor to this web based forum. He often gave out free engineering advice about Bristols and Landrovers, so I am happy if I can help him out by sending a bit of traffic his way. Here's a direct link to his site Welcome to JE Engineering | About Us

As for the ASDA link, they make a small contribution to the running costs of the site in exchange for the link.

BTW Greg, I have deleted the word (commission) from your post as I believe it was uncalled for in the context in which it was used.
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Old 01-03-11, 06:52 AM
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Only I know the context I use words but it is never malicious.

I guessed the advertising policy would be on the same lines as BODA and based on common sense. :-)
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Old 01-03-11, 09:19 AM
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Thanks Kevin, you're a mate !

Incidentally, I hope to be visiting Australia soon, for the first time. Unfortunatley it will be to the Brisbane area, and I think you are near Perth, which is a bit like you saying you are coming to Europe, but Athens rather than Coventry; so not necessarily a time to meet up ! Anyway I am looking forward to seeing G.O.C. for myself !
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Old 25-03-11, 04:07 PM
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Default Diesel engines in classic cars-Not!

I simply cannot believe anyone would seriously consider putting a diesel engine in a Bristol. I don't think too many of us would want to corrupt a car such as this with the idea that it would make it more 'economical' to drive.
There are so many cheaper, lesser cars out there that get great fuel mileage. I would sacrifice a few other of life's necessities than butcher a Bristol.
Those of us who have longed for one of these cars for so many years are hardly the ones who don't think they can afford fuel to drive them on occasion. This has to be the most bizzare post I have read on this site.
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Old 26-03-11, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronald G. Stephenson View Post
I simply cannot believe anyone would seriously consider putting a diesel engine in a Bristol. I don't think too many of us would want to corrupt a car such as this with the idea that it would make it more 'economical' to drive.
Welcome Ron.

I can understand your point of view, but you live in the US where petrol is still very cheap compared with European countries.

Someone in the UK who wants to use a V8 Bristol as their daily driver and pays three times the US price for their petrol might have a completely different view. Furthermore, they would have to import all of their Chrysler engine and transmission parts from the USA.

Bear in mind also Bristol themselves have offered LPG conversions for many years, so even they have been mindful that fuel consumption is important.

A Bristol doesn't have to be "butchered" to fit another engine. Yes some modifications may required but when dealing with metal everything is reversible.

Last but not least, there are also many people who frown upon a very British car like the Bristol using an an American power train, which is why there are two camps of Bristol owners.

Ironically I have spent a small fortune having my 411 Chrysler V8 rebuilt and modified (stroked), which I now regret. The changes included forged pistons and as a result, at idle the engine now sounds like a Cummins diesel!

Quote:
This has to be the most bizzare post I have read on this site.
Keep reading
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Old 26-03-11, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald G. Stephenson View Post
I simply cannot believe anyone would seriously consider putting a diesel engine in a Bristol. I don't think too many of us would want to corrupt a car such as this with the idea that it would make it more 'economical' to drive.
There are so many cheaper, lesser cars out there that get great fuel mileage. I would sacrifice a few other of life's necessities than butcher a Bristol.
Those of us who have longed for one of these cars for so many years are hardly the ones who don't think they can afford fuel to drive them on occasion. This has to be the most bizzare post I have read on this site.
The race car boys are the real Bristol butcherer's. Many a 6 cylinder Bristol has become extinct after having the engines robbed. Annoying and sad, especially now that new engines are available.

Everyone has different ideas on originality versus practicality and where the soul of the car is. For a large majority it's purely the look of the original car , hence the 411 S6 and countless Cobra replicas.
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Old 26-03-11, 12:40 PM
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I understand our American friend's view, knowing how negative the US population are against Diesel engines in a car.


Personally, if I contemplated a different engine, I would try to find one with a similar weight.


I would look into a productby BMW or Mercedes Benz
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Old 26-03-11, 09:31 PM
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Of course, there are many ways to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It can be done, and all it requires is time and money. As to the re-build and stroking the engine; that is a guaranteed way to make an engine even thirstier. That good, old 313 or later 318 engine can be quite economical. My son's truck (lorry) had the newer, roller cammed, fuel injected engine and it got very decent mileage for a four thousand pound vehicle. All the 93 and newer trucks came with this engine and a more fuel-efficient overdrive automatic transmission, and were I to 'upgrade', that would be my choice for a Bristol.
I would be very hesitant about modifying any year Bristol, especially if some welding or fabricating would take place, as this would seriously devalue the car. Our fuel prices are starting to climb at a rapid rate, now passing the 4 dollar mark per gallon. This is not necessary, as we are sitting on as much oil as our Mid-east friends have, but our environmental advocates will not allow drilling. Things will change here, and soon.
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Old 26-03-11, 09:39 PM
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Ronald

We are approaching $10 / gallon in the U.K

Don't believe the oil shale myth that goes around in the USA ! If you had it , you would be taking it by now and not helping us in the middle east !
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Old 27-03-11, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronald G. Stephenson View Post
As to the re-build and stroking the engine; that is a guaranteed way to make an engine even thirstier.
It wasn't done to improve fuel consumption. However, what you say is not necessarily correct, because it depends on efficiency. The original engine was tired and had already been "reconditioned" once or twice. With the multi point EFI we were also putting on the car it was felt that fuel consumption would be considerably better than the original worn engine.

Quote:
That good, old 313 or later 318 engine can be quite economical.
I guess it's all relative. What do you call economical?

Quote:
My son's truck (lorry) had the newer, roller cammed, fuel injected engine and it got very decent mileage for a four thousand pound vehicle.
What is "decent mileage" ?

Quote:
I would be very hesitant about modifying any year Bristol, especially if some welding or fabricating would take place, as this would seriously devalue the car.
It depends what the value is in the first place! If the car requires total restoration and the engine needs rebuilding, then you can't devalue it by much.

I would be hesitant too, from an originality perspective. But consider this; as petrol gets more expensive, the prospect of using a V8 Bristol as a daily driver becomes less viable (in Europe at least). So a really well modified Bristol with a more economic engine, which produces adequate power and torque, may actually be more saleable than a gas guzzler, particularly in the UK.

As for petrol prices, again it's all relative. Most people would kill for petrol at $4 per gallon. Oh, I forgot, that's why it's $4 per gallon.
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Old 27-03-11, 03:02 AM
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Greg, it's the green lobby powering our non-drilling, and their views adopted by the Democratic leadership. If or once the Republicans get back in office, the Arabs will drop their prices so long as there are no wars to consider, to encourage our continued buying from them as an alternative to drilling. I don't think any knowledgable American, and I don't profess to be one when it comes to oil, doubts our reserves are enormous. My ex-Shell engineer BIL is pretty knowledgable on this, and this is what he tells me.
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Old 27-03-11, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin H View Post
As for petrol prices, again it's all relative. Most people would kill for petrol at $4 per gallon. Oh, I forgot, that's why it's $4 per gallon.
Errant political jabs aside, well, it's not near $4 per gallon where I live in mid-US. Folks here are very upset at our current government's drilling policy, which could well lead to a change in '12.

And there are several reasons for "high" petrol, one of which is gov't's insatiable taxing to support other politically-motivated programs, not just highway construction/ maintenance.
The nearly 15% increase in UK VAT rate to 20% last Jan. hasn't helped there.

War always has raised raw petroleum prices.
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Old 27-03-11, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by browning l View Post
Errant political jabs aside, well, it's not near $4 per gallon where I live in mid-US.
Which means you would be less concerned with fuel consumption and why you would never contemplate putting a diesel engine in your Bristol!

Quote:
Originally Posted by browning l View Post
Folks here are very upset at our current government's drilling policy
Those would presumably NOT be the folks who don't live around the Gulf of Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by browning l View Post
The nearly 15% increase in UK VAT rate to 20% last Jan. hasn't helped there.
The big problem with UK petrol prices, is that before they calculate the VAT, they add about 140% in duty!
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Old 27-03-11, 12:12 PM
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Are you boys discussing US gallons or Imperial gallons?

Talk Metric so all of us understand!
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Old 27-03-11, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin H View Post
Those would presumably NOT be the folks who don't live around the Gulf of Mexico
"A glib response...refuge of those w/o serious thoughts, who giggle at their own jests...usually ignoreth logic" Tacitus? Pliny?

..an awful lot of folks are put out of work when/where drilling isn't underway.

The impact of the BRITISH company's failure to operate properly has been pretty well-handled, it seems.
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