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Advice please on Transmission Removal 411

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Old 21-07-10, 09:09 PM
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Default Advice please on Transmission Removal 411

What is the easiest way to remove a 727 transmission from a 411 (s1) without removing the engine? On the other forum, someone suggested removing the seats and the transmission cover from the interior, to gain access, but to then drop the transmission down (carefully I am told so things don't break) and extract from below.

If someone has done a removal before, can they provide me with a step by step detail instruction. This would include breaking it apart from the engine as well. It seems there are some flywheel bolts that must be undone.

Claude
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Old 22-07-10, 06:07 AM
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Claude,

This is clearly a question for "people who know stuff", whom I believe can be found over in the new BODA club

I have never done this job, so I can't provide a blow by blow description and I don't know for sure whether you need to remove the tranny tunnel and seats.

It's unfortunate that you didn't post your question yesterday when I had my 411 on axle stands - I could have had a look. That said, when I bought my 411 I had the tranny reconditioned and I know they didn't touch the tranny tunnel or the seats to get it out.

As for the flywheel bolts that you refer to, these are probably the four bolts which fix the torque converter to the flexplate, which in turn is connected to the end of the crankshaft (there isn't a flywheel per se, just a starter ring on the torque converter). However, if you leave the flexplate bolts in place the transmission spline should just slide out of the torque converter (with some very gentle wiggling), which would leave the torque converter connected to the engine.

If you do end up disconnecting the flex plate from the torque converter, make sure you mark one ear of the flexplate, along with the torque converter body so it's easy to reassemble the same way it came off.

The usual caveats and disclaimers apply

Please let us know how you get on.
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Old 22-07-10, 02:39 PM
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Default Transmission removal

I am also not able to give you a blow-by-blow account, Caude, but I have a few pointers. The only time we had the trnasmision out of my 409, it came out with the engine and went back in with the engine. If it is possible to get it out without removing the engine, the difficulty will be having enough space to move it first backwards a little to get it free of the engine and then downwards and forwards to come out. My recollection is that the back of the gear box is supported above a tubular cross memeber which is a permanent welded part of the chassis. On a Land Rover the equivalent part is bolted in and can be removed, greatly facilitating transmission removal.

The first question to answer would be to check whether it is possible to access all the bellhousing bolts and remove them from the car with the transmission still in place. If that is possible, then the rest of this post might make sense. If that is possible, it is necessary to choose 2 bolts which are roughly on oppositie sides of the engine which can be left in place until last but that are then most easy to get at to undo before final removal.

I would think the whole job is easiest if the transmission is in Neutral, not Park, when you start.

The preliminary steps are then as follows :
1) Drain the fluid from the transmision.
2) Disconnect any fluid cooler pipes and strap them out of the way, and cap the ends to keep the insides clean.
3) Disconnect the control cables/linkages, parking brake, gear lever, and kick-down.
4) Disconnect and completely remove the propshaft.
5) Disconnect the speedo drive cable, and any electrical plugs, etc.
6) Remove the front part of the exhaust, detatch it from the exhaust manifolds and from the front of the silencers and remove. This allows the angle of the engine to be tilted a little if necessary.
7) Have a look around the engine to see if there is anything else which should be removed or suitably adjusted to allow the engine to tilt a little forward or backward. Do what is necessary.
8) There should be two brackets which each form a triangle with the bottom of the engine and the bellhousing, one on each side, to improve the stiffness of the engine and transmission assembly. The upper end of each bracket is bolted to the bottom of the engine next to the sump, about half way along the engine, and the lower end is bolted to the bellhousing. Remove both of these brackets.
9) Remove the half-moon shaped peice of metal covering the front of the bellhousing below the engine, its 4 or 6 small bolts, I think.
10) You can now see the torque converter drive plate and the front of the torque converter. At least one of the bolts which hold the converter to the drive plate should be visible. Undo that bolt and then turn the engine round until the next one appears, remove that and reapeat until all four are out.

Do not try to do this by leaving the torque converter bolted onto the engine. It can slide out of the front of the gearbox, but you are in danger of braking the transmission oil pump drive system, which depends on two tabs on the hollow shaft at the back of the torque converter. The torque converter should be kept firmly in the front of the transmission at all times.

When all the bolts are removed, push the torque converter backwards a little in the bell-housing. It should move backwards, off the drive plate, by about 3 mm.

11) Assuming you are working on some sort of vehicle lift ramp, you now need to support the back of the engine sump on some sort of jack on the ramp. Don't lift it up but have something ready to support the back of the engine when the transmission is no longer attached.

12) Undo the bolts of the gearbox rear mounting.

13) Remove all but 2 of the bellhousing bolts.

14) Then you need to know whether this whole job is possible !
If it is, you should be able to undo the last two bolts, lift the transmission backwards a few inches, make sure the torque converter cannot fall out, lower the front of the transmission, possibly raising the back of the engine a few inches, and slide the transmission out forwards and downwards.

Voila ! Piece of cake !

(Refitting is the reverse of the above ! )

Thor.
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Old 22-07-10, 09:20 PM
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Claude,
Thor's "drive plate" is what I referred to as the "flex plate".

Just one more bit of advice, and this maybe stating the obvious, but the transmission is very heavy (God only knows what the previous iron cased tranny must weigh!). I just happen to have a 727 Torque Converter in my garage, and it weighs a fair bit on it's own. With a whole transmission attached it is defintely a two man job to remove it safely.

Are you sure it wouldn't be easier to just remove the engine and transmission as one? (although that's what I did and ended up rebuilding the engine "while it was out", then the front suspension etc etc)

Good luck with it!

Kevin
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Old 22-07-10, 09:52 PM
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Hi yet again I have no actual experience of removing an automatic transmission from the Bristol model you mention,But having removed And re fitted hundreds of transmissions ,It is always best to unbolt the Torque converter from the flexiplate, and remove the transmission with the converter in side , i usually bolt on a home made short flatsteel plate to keep the converter inside the bellhousing, (this also keeps the oil from leaking everywhere) when i'm removing the Gearbox/transmission,You dont want the torque converter falling on your" toes" if you are doing the job on a car lift ramp.

Usually i access the awkward bolts on the bellhousing and the starter motor with various 1/2 drive socket s +Extension bars, for really hard to get at bolts i use 3/8" drive sockets+ rachet and long extension bars combined with some choice swear words .

For the tail end of the gearbox i have a variety plastic aerosol caps that push in to keep oil from leaking everywhere sometimes i use a rag and a few cable ties to do the same job.
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Old 05-01-18, 12:05 AM
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Default Transmission replacement

I can't believe it has been 8 years since I began this thread. A couple of weeks ago, someone In Auckland enquired about purchasing the 411, so - as it is the Christmas holiday and all of NZ is closed for summer - I pulled it out of deep storage and began to clean it up. Now that prospective buyer says he won't be able to look at the car until after returning from overseas travel, but my momentum in preparing it to be seen is prompting me to getting it on the road.

The old transmission is still in the car, but given that the market for 411's has risen, I began to look at what needs to be done to get the car on the road and then sold... either here in NZ or sent to England on consignment.

There is no 411 shop manual, but the 407-408 shop manual reads as follows. Has anyone actually followed this procedure? Comments and advice please.

Thanks,
Claude

Removing Transmission - This must be carried out from inside the car.
  • Drain the cooling system.
  • Drain the transmission by detaching the transmission dipstick/filter tube.
  • Remove the carpets, seats, tunnel and floorboards.
  • Remove the handbrake lever and ratchet.
  • Disconnect the propeller shaft.
  • Disconnect the oil cooler tubes
  • Disconnect the throttle linkage
  • Disconnect the gearshift control cable (the 411 uses a stick shift)
  • Disconnect the nylon semi-rigid fuel pipe at the engine.
  • Slacken the bolts attaching the exhaust pipes to the manifold and without removing the bolts run the nuts to the extreme end of the thread.
  • Disconnect the heater pipe at engine and disconnect the oil pressure pipe.
  • Remove the air cleaner and carburettor and attach the Engine Lifting Fixture (Bracket) Tool C - 3466 to the carburettor flange studs on the intake manifold.
  • Take the weight of the engine with a hoist and disconnect the transmission mounting to the chassis.
  • Remove the oil filler, air cleaner and raise the back of the engine by the use of slings or jacking sufficiently to allow the transmission to be clear of the chassis.
  • Support the transmission and remove the four bolts attaching it to the torque converter casing.
  • With adapted lifting tackle it can now be removed from the car.
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