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8 & 10 cyl Bristol cars From Type 407 onwards

Poly 318

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Old 07-10-16, 02:06 PM
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Default Poly 318

I may need a left side exhaust manifold. From my research there appear to be 3 or more versions used by Chrysler all with different outlets. Can anybody tell me what model Chrysler/Dodge car was this engine original to?
This may make it easier to source one.
Thanks,

Anne
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Old 07-10-16, 04:03 PM
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I bought a used exhaust manifold for a 410 many years ago, and I may actually have the broken one with a casting number on it. Perhaps that would help identify it even if the casting numbers are different from time to time. Also, I seem to remember that we decided the engine was Plymouth, the less expensive half of Chrysler at the time.
I hope this helps a bit.
I'm away now, but I'll be back home in 3 days, and will make a note to send you a picture of the old manifold if I can.

- Sandy
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Old 07-10-16, 05:27 PM
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Thanks...knowing that it's a Plymouth is a start....an area to check.

Anne
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Old 09-10-16, 02:46 AM
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Dodge Dart, Plymouth Fury, Belvedere/Mayfair all from circa 1955-60, possibly a bit later, particularly in Canada.

Although some models of these cars used the 313/318 engine, the outlet from the manifold exited at the centre or rear depending on body type. Not sure whether the length of the outlet also may have varied.

Here's a lengthy discussion on the topic!

410 exhaust manifold

One of the manifolds on the Bristol incorporates a heat control valve. I think it is the left hand one, but it depends on which way you are looking at the car!
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Old 09-10-16, 03:27 AM
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Well thanks for the links.
Basically no further ahead. The left side Exhaust manifold exits at the rear, however there are 3 or more style of exit flanges, and exit curvature so it is important to know what cars they came from. Chrysler produced many different cars with a poly 318 and knowing what manifold went were is important when sourcing one.

Anne
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Old 09-10-16, 07:34 AM
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The only way you are going to know with absolute certainty is by finding out what casting numbers were used on the Bristol cars. Given that you have a car with the manifolds on, you are in a position to acquire those numbers :-)
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Old 09-10-16, 10:36 PM
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Don't see how that casting numbers help or maybe by chance?
I have 2 left manifoldsne is useless as badly broken at the end. The other one I am using but it's cracked...will get it welded this winter.
The numbers are: 2658381 and 22881901. No similarity and even the quantity of numbers is different.
So both numbers would work but that is not the way people in North America work. They would want info such as: 1963 Valiant as in a specific car, and Sandy mentioned Plymouth but there are several versions of Plymouths as in Fury, Belvedere, Valiant and Barracuda...maybe others. Knowing which one is the information I need or for that matter many of us do.

Anne

Last edited by Anne; 09-10-16 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 10-10-16, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne View Post
Don't see how that casting numbers help or maybe by chance?
The reason they can be helpful (in my view) is because many of the cars that used them used several different casting numbers over the production period. So if you can identify a car that used a particular casting number, and a 313/318 engine, then it may be possible to identify other casting numbers that will fit.

The fact that you have two different casting numbers that fit your car, demonstrates this.

I have been doing a little research into this and discovered that the part numbers on the Bristol Cars parts list for the 409 may in fact be casting numbers - I had assumed they were internal Bristol part numbers which are usually meaningless outside the company.

The parts list says as follows;

Part No. 2129196 Exhaust Manifold R.T. Type 408/MII (1)
Part No. 2465879 Exhaust Manifold R.T. Type 409 & 410 (1)
Part No. 2268128 Exhaust Manifold L.T. 2206274

The book ULTIMATE AMERICAN V-8 ENGINE DATA BOOK 1949-1974 BY PETER C. SESSLER (2nd Edition) it lists 2268127 as being a left manifold used on Dodge cars (Dart, Polara, Coronet) with 318 Poly engine between 1962 - 1965. That's just 1 digit different from the LT manifold in the Bristol parts list 2268128 .

It also lists 2129194 as the RH manifold for Dodge 318 Poly engines in 1962 (again only one digit different from the Bristol parts list 2129196)

Anne, I wonder if the manifolds fitted to your car are not the originals, and the reason they have broken is because they were not the right ones and didn't quite fit correctly with the rest of the system or the body.
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Old 10-10-16, 05:09 AM
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Well none of those numbers tie in with mine. In addition on this Forum there is a picture of a broken manifold with the numbers 2206275 clearly marked and again different from your numbers.
My exhaust lasted the car's life until an unfortunate truck driver broke them when unloading the car. The pipes under the car are in alignment with the manifold so I have no reason to question their correctness. In any case even if the LH was not correct it still proves there are many casting numbers.
Other manifolds of Chrysler engines of the period will not clear the frame.
Have tried to attach a picture but no luck.
As already mentioned there are 3 or more manifolds for the 318 depending on car/truck model so the ULTIMATE AMERICAN....book is in error with only one casting number, given I have just shown you 3 ! Perhaps they got their info from Sethright LOL So 3 numbers of mine + one from ULTIMATE AMERICAN makes 4.. But wait..on E Bay http://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-63-64-6.../201676760124?
there is one for sale now today with number 2288186 clearly listed for a poly LH side, so there are at least 5. Proves my point that the casting numbers are meaningless. What would have meaning is what car was our engine sourced from or what LH exhaust did they use?
Anne

Last edited by Anne; 10-10-16 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 10-10-16, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne View Post
As already mentioned there are 3 or more manifolds for the 318 depending on car/truck model so the ULTIMATE AMERICAN....book is in error with only one casting number, given I have just shown you 3 !
Your derision is misplaced (and uncalled for). Who said the ULTIMATE AMERICAN book lists only one casting number for this exhaust manifold? It lists others, I just didn't transcribe them all!

Quote:
What would have meaning is what car was our engine sourced from or what LH exhaust did they use?
Anne
Well let us know when you find out. LOL
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Old 10-10-16, 12:50 PM
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Ok..the clear impression was there was only one.
Given that now you tell me that the ULTIMATE book has more than one LH casting number how many are listed?
Are there any that match the ones I have provided? What I have shown, is that based on my limited knowledge, at this point there are 6 or more LH casting numbers...possibly more? This is why I find casting numbers a curiosity but not of much help in sourcing a manifold.

Anne
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Old 11-10-16, 02:06 AM
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I know that Spencer Lane Jones Ltd in Warminster has had (or is having) a batch of steel exhaust manifolds fabricated. These are not tubular but are equivalent to the cast originals, just fabricated in steel instead. One of these has been fitted without problem to my 410 since I caught the exhaust on a cattle grid and snapped a manifold earlier this year.
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Old 11-10-16, 02:37 PM
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Ok thanks for the tip. I am also having low profile mufflers made up under 3" to avoid /minimize the problem you encountered.
Anne
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Old 11-10-16, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne View Post
Ok..the clear impression was there was only one.
I said the book "lists 2268127 as being a left manifold used on Dodge cars "

Note I said "a manifold", not "the manifold" !

Quote:
Given that now you tell me that the ULTIMATE book has more than one LH casting number how many are listed?
I don't know, I don't have the book. I was accessing an online preview of the book. The information is grouped under car brands - e.g Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth, DeSoto etc. The Dodge section listed several exhaust manifolds for the 318 Poly engine - 3 LH and 3 RH.

Unfortunately the page that I think we really need (page 200), which would list Plymouth exhaust manifolds, is not included in the online sample. I was tempted to buy the book to satisfy my curiosity but as my Bristol has a different engine I resisted the urge.

It is of course quite possible that Chrysler manufactured a specific manifold for Bristol and that we won't find the exact casting numbers anywhere other than the Bristol parts list.
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Old 12-10-16, 11:01 AM
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I wish I could be more help with this thread, but I cannot find the original manifolds of my 409, I think I have sold them already (my car has some fabricated parts).

I am absolutely sure that the manifolds were not made specially for Bristol, I have books about tuning Mopar engines which show identical manifolds on 318 'A' engines (not 'LA') from series models, but the tuning books don't talk about the models the engines were fitted to.

I can confirm that the correct manifolds for a 409 could be described as : Right hand manifold has a central outlet and includes a butterfly valve controlled by a bi-metallic spring (intended to restrict flow and direct the flow across the heating passage in the cylinder heads and inlet manifold to the other side of the engine, when cold). Left hand manifold has a rear outlet. Both manifolds are simple 'logs', i.e. there is no separation of the exhaust flows from the different cylinders.

I believe the engines were bought from Chrysler in only two batches, the first being 313 engines probably in 1961 or 1962, mostly used in 407 and 408 cars, and then a batch of 318 engines probably bought in about 1966, mostly used in 409 and 410 cars.

As the new 'LA' engine became available from about 1965 on, it is very difficult to pin down the models for the second batch of engines. I would advise contacting the very small number of companies offering specialist tuning of the 'A' Poly engine, and asking them to obtain the correct manifolds on your behalf.
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Old 12-10-16, 03:45 PM
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Thanks...I can confirm 100% that these manifolds were not built for Bristol as I have another engine ( wish I knew what car it came from) that has exactly the same manifold. It's the one I am using but managed to crack the flange were it meets the down pipe. Fixable, but I would like a good one.
I have e-mailed Spencer Lane Jones as well as the Chrysler Historical office.
I gave them the 5 casting numbers I have, to see if that will help to identify the source.
Also note that a 66 Dodge Charger uses a poly engine as their base engine.

Thor if you can scan the page where your tune up book shows "our" manifold that would be of some help.
Thanks to all,

Anne

PS just got a reply from Spencer Lane Jones 165 pounds in steel and here is a picture
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Exhaust manifolds V8.jpg (351.2 KB, 27 views)

Last edited by Anne; 12-10-16 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 13-10-16, 09:37 AM
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It would be interesting if they have any information on the numbers from the Bristol parts list.
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Old 15-10-16, 10:00 PM
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Got a reply from Chrysler and unfortunately none of the period paper files were transcribed, so Bristol data of the period seems to have been lost.
Anne
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Old 16-10-16, 10:59 PM
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Hello Anne, From what I've heard the manifold differs from the MOPAR cars the engines were fitted to. I had a spare LH manifold until February this year until I loaned it to a guy to help him out. I'm still struggling to get it back! ( There's lesson there somewhere!) You may be better looking for a top class specialist repair. There's guy in Birmingham, UK who sells a lot of bits Brian May?. Might be worth trying him
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Old 18-10-16, 10:34 AM
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Thanks...yes I know Brian. I will get mine repaired and keep on the search for a good one and will then advise the group as to what model Chrysler it came from.
Anne
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